Radfem 2013 and the MRAs

[MooncupGoddess]

As many of you will remember, the Radfem 2012 conference in London was explicitly open only to born women and consequently attracted lots of condemnation and anger from people who saw this as transphobic. It was kicked out of its original venue at Conway Hall and went underground (very successfully in the end).

This year Radfem 2013 has not explicitly banned transwomen... but instead it's come under attack from Men's Rights Activists, who have staged a demo at the planned venue, the London Irish Centre, while making lots of unpleasant and ridiculous claims about how radical feminists want to murder small boys and the like. As a result the venue is threatening to cancel the booking.

www.mralondon.org/

bugbrennan.com/2013/04/20/statement-from-rad-fem-2013/

I have mixed feelings about the whole trans issue but have no hesitation in declaring the MRAs utter misogynist knobbers and am disappointed the London Irish Centre has seemingly caved into them.

I disagree with that.

I think sometimes gatecrashing is ok. I just don't accept that radfem 2013 is asking for something unreasonable in inviting only women, and I don't think it is involved in hate speech. I just don't.

I'm also not OK with hatred just on the basis of I don't go around doing hating people generally.

I do feel that as a feminist I am concerned against stuff that happens to people on account of their SEX which is generally pronounced at birth (or before). That pronouncement leads to death, starvation, abuse and god only knows what for many of the ones pronounced "female" when they emerge from their mother's body.

Gender is a concept that I loathe as it (by definition) encapsulates all of the stereotypes about what people should be based on what they were identified as when they were born.

I want a situation where sexism, homophobia, racism, and all the isms are just dead and gone. Get rid of those and stereotypes and roles and we'll be a long way towards everyone being more content.

I've come across Cathy Brennan and I liked what she said. I will read her website, but glancing down, I don't have an issue with what I'm seeing yet?

I don't go around saying 'men can't become women' or 'women can't become men' because I don't want to generalize what I think about me, to everyone, and because I know to do so would upset a lot of people who I believe are vulnerable.

But I am very far from judging someone for expressing that opinion, too.

Is she speaking?

Sorry i haven't checked teh thing.
maybe I need to check the thing.

Just had a look and can't see cathy as a speaker

YY, true beer.

FWIW, if that's the bit you're referring to, kim, where she says MRAs = transactivists, I think she is referring to the conversation she quotes where a couple of people are engaging in a bit of misogynistic bonding.

I wouldn't imagine those people are representative of transpeople any more than I'd assume the hypothetical rad fems who kill baby boys are representative of feminism.

I do see there is a disco on the sat night though.

My recommendation is to get a kebab first

She's become very visibly associated with it, hasn't she? Like Julia Long was last year. I wonder if it's not just because she's a visible 'name', TBH.

Why shouldn't Cathy Brennan be allowed to speak?

It's no worries kim.

I doubt it.

Last year the fuss was over whether or not it was ok to have a couple of sessions that didn't include everyone who could go to the event.

It is a fig-leaf, to claim it's about the venue's equality policies, I think. I could be wrong, but I think so.

I have been to plenty enough meetings where it was made clear not everyone would be entitled to go to every session, and no-one has ever argued it was discriminatory for a marginalized group to meet without members not of that marginalized group.

It's just , if I can talk sort of freely. For me, my feminism came as a natural thing just from, I don't know, like being left wing. It just is. And I kind of want to share that with everyone but also, and I know that this sounds bad, but some things like my experience growing up as a girl, teen in the UK, that made me a feminist, is just something not shared by people who grew up as a boy. thing is, I imagine my growing up was easier than people who are gay or trans or black or poor (I have privilege max which is again me being honest) BUT my growing up as a girl was something that I will share stuff with other people who were born and pronounced female elsewhere. That is the bit I want to get together and talk about and it doesn't mean I hate anyone or even that I think I have had it harder or whatever but still there is a situation globally with people who are pronounced female at birth and I want and kind of need to get together with other people in that situation to talk about it.
It upsets me TBH that people would think that because I have this affinity and shared stuff with people who were pronounced female at birth means I have hate or I don't care about anything else and so on. The radfems I have met do not bear this out either. They're all vegetarian for crying out loud and talking about shit that's going on in DRC and stuff.
I just, it baffles me why these meetings keep getting blocked.

Kim the idea of a group of feminists being cencored on the basis of an equality policy is a bit don't you think?

Agree LRD I think the equality policy thing is a fig leaf.

I feel like that, nice.

I don't want to be included in a session for lesbians if I'm not welcome. I respect they have experiences I may not share. Same with (say) women of ethnic minorities. Or women who have been raped. Or women who have children. Or whatever it might be.

I will point out that I would very much like to have children and if wishing made it so ... but I don't. Therefore, it would not be fair for me to say I need to be in that session. I'm bisexual and some of my experiences growing up might not be totally dissimilar to those of lesbian women - but it wouldn't be fair for me to claim I was the same.

There are loads of ways in which women can form smaller sub-groups if they want to talk about things that they usually feel they can't discuss.

So long as we all get together some of the time, too, I think that should be ok.

I can believe some people say horrible things. And that is shit.

(Btw, I realized I should say, I do see that me not attending, say, mum-only events isn't an exact parallel ... it is hard to find parallels ... because perhaps it isn't in the same way central to my identity. I don't know.)

YY exactly LRD.

I have no problem with accepting that there are squillions of groups that it would be totally inappropriate for me to attend / try to attend.

I don't get why this is tricky, I guess. I know it is a very small minority of people who have these views but bugger me they're not half effective.

I think at the moment one of the big issues is MRAs, though - who I suspect couldn't give a toss about transactivism.

I agree Nice re girlhood - it is important.

Kim if the Irish Centre has policies that stop women gathering to discuss feminism then those policies should be changed. I find the very idea of banning this conference on the grounds of equality absurd.

Kim yes I get that's awful, really awful.
But again it's judging all people on the basis of what one person who self-identifies as a thing says...
Bottom line is, well, I don't know. I know me and I know I'm a decent kind sort of person.
Also there have been people on both "sides" who have done / said things. And so on.