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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible, preferably not working at all after that

531 replies

StealthPolarBear · 03/04/2013 13:27

I am infuriated by this attitude which seems to be prevalent. After women have had babies they only work if they have to, and go part time if they can. But I can't put into words why I work - why wouldn't I? I work for the same reasons as I did before I had children. I work for the same reasons as DH works.
Either of us could give up work and we'd cope. But that was true pre-children. Women continuing to work FT seems to be a slur on their man's ability to 'provide'.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:13

Satsuki, feel free to opt out. I don't take it personally if someone says strangers are raising my children but I will weigh in with my view as to why they are deluded. Debate should not get people upset but if you cannot take the heat, best to stay out of the kitchen. Of course, feel free to participate as well. Not my call.

seeker · 05/04/2013 21:14

It's also interesting that nobody seems to be suggesting that men should automatically give up work and become sAHFs in order to provide a role model for their sons........

SatsukiKusukabe · 05/04/2013 21:16

bless you scottish. you seem to be drunk again confused as to what the words debate or even conversation mean. I won't patronize you by explaining and will give a little nudge in the direction of a dictionary. But here is a hint, they dont mean incoherently ranting at anyone who "does it wrong " with no information or facts to back it up whilst ignoring what the other party has to say.

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:18

Seeker, many posters including myself have advocated more men doing childcare as a way of advancing women in the workplace post-children. Certainly more SAHDs is the way forward.

seeker · 05/04/2013 21:21

But you are happy to call me a bad role model. Is my dp one too? Our children have no hope at all!!!!!!!!!!

SatsukiKusukabe · 05/04/2013 21:21

yes blue, of course. ta for now

scottishmummy · 05/04/2013 21:23

Why you strikeout am i drunk?
touch of the passive aggressive?
Drunk is that your putdown when you don't like the pov

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:23

potatoprints, women have overwhelmingly exercised their choice to opt out of the workplace or go pt after having children. They don't need feminism to tell them they can do that. They should however be aware that opting out also means it is detrimental to the cause of your dd and other women to have a bigger voice in society and how it is run.

Why not exercise the choice of empowerment, self-reliance and independence than the choice of vulnerability and dependence on men instead? I cannot see why feminism would not advocate that equally if not more.

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:24

seeker, you have got your knickers in a twist and somehow got hung up on role models. Not sure what I can say.

seeker · 05/04/2013 21:27

It would be ever so much easier if you were a little less- idiosyncratic- in your posting style. Then people might not think you were drunk.But then everybody wouldn't be so very impressed by your "Youneekness" would they?

morethanpotatoprints · 05/04/2013 21:29

blueshoes

I don't know why but i have a habit of attracting people who are desperate for help, my mum said i was always like it.

On two occasions very many years ago and about 10 years ago I offered to help two men who had both been left holding the baby, so to speak. Both their wives left them. One had a 6 month old baby the other had 4 dc under 12.
Now obviously they needed support and help the same as a mother would, but they managed and only needed the same support not much more.
They did the same as we do, manage because there is nothing else to do when you have dc.
Men are as capable as we are.
The man with the 6 mth old was mostly concerned about bf mothers at toddler groups and if he would be accepted. He was soon assured they wouldn't mind in the slightest. His dd is nearly 25 now, unfortunately life hasn't given her much luck. But thats another story Grin

seeker · 05/04/2013 21:32

"seeker, you have got your knickers in a twist and somehow got hung up on role models. Not sure what I can say."

Possibly acknowledge that it's not as black and white as you are saying it is? And consider why you find it acceptable to belittle women who choose to look after their own children. I don't belittle your choices- why do you think it's Oak for you to do it to mine?

scottishmummy · 05/04/2013 21:32

Seeker,whilst i dont concur with you I'm not so presumptuous as to say change post style
Strikes me when I get the you is too Scottish/bad syntax/is you drunk that they can read enough to know wbat they no likey
Funny that....

morethanpotatoprints · 05/04/2013 21:33

blueshoes.

If you have read my posts I am more empowered than most women I know. I am in a really good place and why would I teach my dd she has to be dependant and reliant upon a man? I most certainly am not at all and couldn't stand being like this Grin

morethanpotatoprints · 05/04/2013 21:34

Scottish

You what? Grin

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:35

Seeker, belittling is in your head. No one can make you feel belittled if you don't let them.

Same as no one can make me or dh feel a crap parent because one of us is not with our dcs at home fulltime.

I am very happy to debate it though. It is not personal. Even if you don't change your views - which you won't - someone else can read it and gives them pause to challenge their own assumptions and conditioning.

seeker · 05/04/2013 21:36

Oh it's not because you're Scottish. I only know you're Scottish because you say you are, not because of the way you post. It is just colossally arrogant to think"it's up to them to work out what I mean". Like shouting really loudly in English when you're in France. it's not big, as they say, and it's not cover.

nailak · 05/04/2013 21:36

"Why undertake unpaid work at all? Women can also help their cause by demanding fair pay for their efforts."

Because I don't see money as validation for my work. I don't want money for work. There has been times where charity groups have offered to pay me for sessions in children centre etc, and I have said I would do it for free.

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:40

potatoprints, I don't remember all of what you wrote about your circumstances but I remember them to be atypical of a lot of SAHMs.

I don't think you are doing women who are about to make themselves financially vulnerable a service by using yourself as an example. Of course you would not teach dd to be dependent on a man, that would be absurd. But if you don't tell her that SAHM-ing as a choice makes her financially vulnerable, then that is shielding her from the truth.

FWIW, I was earning 3x dh when we married and had (still have) a lot of assets in my own name from pre-marriage. I would still consider myself to be financially vulnerable if I totalled my earning power by staying at home for anything longer than one year.

scottishmummy · 05/04/2013 21:42

Seeker it's immaterial what you think of my post style
I dont recall your post style,nor is it significant.
your pov significant And i will comment on posts as i wish

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:44

seeker, I am sure scottish can defend herself but you are getting uncomfortably personal about her in her posts ...

blueshoes · 05/04/2013 21:45

your posts

morethanpotatoprints · 05/04/2013 21:51

blueshoes

What can I say, I am sorry you would be financially vulnerable by sah. I think its important to teach our children that its not a good idea to be financially vulnerable. I feel my parents taught me well as I am able to make choices in life that do not make me financially vulnerable, including sahm.

scottishmummy · 05/04/2013 21:56

Do I see Money as validation for my work,yes i do.of course. Why not
As do the men who Maintain their families,partners on this thread,enabling them to be unwaged by choice
Is money be all end all,no.but I've worked,studied hard fir what I've got

seeker · 05/04/2013 22:28

"seeker, I am sure scottish can defend herself but you are getting uncomfortably personal about her in her posts ..."

Wasn't it you said something about if you can't take the heat......