Really proud of my 17 year old daughter

[NicholasTeakozy]

She posted a staus on Facebook which read:-

Seen a few status' tonight that have kind of annoyed me. I don't consider myself a feminist, but with issues like this I am. Why are women's bodies over-sexualised all the time? Why can men walk around with their tops off showing off their bodies but it isn't socially acceptable for a woman to do so? Why are women deemed "disgusting" or "sluts" if they do exactly what a man does? Why is there such a taboo on our bodies but men can prance about however the fuck they wish? Nah, fuck that. Ladies, do what you like with your body (within reason). Fuck all you patriarchal cunts.


Cue two of her male friends who argued that women who dress in skimpy clothing are more likely to be harassed and sexually assaulted to which she replied it's the rapists' fault, not the women. Over the course of an hour she tore all their arguments apart and made them look stupid. She really brought a smile to my face and made me swell with pride to see such passion and anger in one so young.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Agree with Sabrina.

[SatsukiKusukabe]

if the op's son had called 2 of his friends racist cunts after they had said black people waking though a white neighbood should expect harassment for daring time to do so... would we be having thus conversation?

[namechangeguy]

Maybe we would. There are two other discussions on here about the use of offensive language;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1716715-grrr-asking-a-man-to-not-use-his-phone-in-the-quiet-cartiage-makes-me-a-bitch-appatently

and

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1717833-What-would-it-mean-if-sexual-hate-words-were-banned

So the use of offensive language seems to be a popular discussion at the moment. Plus it may be that a male using c__t as an insult adds another layer of offensiveness, as per the first thread above.

[SatsukiKusukabe]

a man calling a woman a bitch because she asked him to turn off his phone is the same as a person getting offended by racist or sexist language?Thu appear to have missed the point spectacularly, so I'll not bother to engage with you. it's part of my new policy.

[namechangeguy]

The man was being sexist. He wouldn't have called me a bitch. It isn't rocket science. But agreed - let's ignore each other.

[DisorganisednotDysfunctional]

Me, when people use the word "cunt" as a swear word, I say "What? Warm, soft & extremely popular?"

Usually gets a rueful smile, sometimes even an acknowledgement of my point.

[TeiTetua]

"it may be that a male using c__t as an insult adds another layer of offensiveness"

But when a female does it, it's... a feminist statement? And when the user disavows being a feminist it's... well I just don't know.

And it is CUNT. I don't think people should swear in public*, but it's much worse if they're cowardly about it, with dashes and asterisks. Like going around naked in public, do it if you must, but spare us the fig leaves.

• As I said before, unless there is actual fire or actual blood.

[TeiTetua]

Oh, should have said--DisorganisednotDysfunctional, that's very good.

[SatsukiKusukabe]

I never used the word cunt tei before I lived in the UK. I had only ever heard to really degrade and abuse women. I also never really accepted that a community could "take a word back",but after hearing it used (fairly frequently) in the community I lived in, and constantly on mumsnet and also reading why some feminist see it as a good word for vagina...I have to say, it has taken the sting out of the word. When I was younger I'd have cried if someone had called me it or even felt shaken to hear it. it had such nasty history to me. I much prefer to see a 17 year old say patriarchal cunts then see her be shaken by being called a cunt. If it enters her normal conversational vernacular she's taken the shock value out if the word.

[SatsukiKusukabe]

totally agree about asterisks though, Russell Brand did a very good set about how reading is accepting letters to create words.. so if you swap c*nt for cunt you have still spelled cunt. It just a way for newspapers to stay out of trouble

[NicholasTeakozy]

Whenever I get called a cunt, which is reasonably often, my normal response is "unlike you, of course, you lack the warmth and depth required to be one".

Unlike you namechangeguy I have no problem with young people swearing, as long as it's in context. Gratuitous use of bad language does get picked up on, sure, but it seriously isn't important. The point of my OP was my 17 year old daughter having to pull two of her male friends apart for perpetuating rape myths. Do you understand that, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

Wilson, thank you for that, it's good to see that some employers like someone who can stick up for what is right.

Thank you Squeak, Smudging, Katsuki, Sunny and Sabrina. I am extremely proud of her. She's had a challenging few years and is only just getting back on an even keel. I have her doctors and counsellors to thank for that, along with her mother.

[NicholasTeakozy]

Apologies, Satsuki. Must proofread.

[namechangeguy]

NT, I said the following in my first post on here, on the first page;

'She makes valid points - I just think the swearing detracts.'

Others have made exactly the same point. I don't see any reason to single me out.

I was also unaware of the challenging issues that you have just alluded to. I have maintained throughout that the issue I have with bad language is a personal one. I am not trying to tell you how to bring up your own kid. I hope she is okay.

[AnitaKnightSavesTheWorld]

I very rarely never use the word cunt irl but I don't object to it's use on MN. Utterly ridiculous to get knickers in a twist about the swear words and not about the content of the OP.

NickT - I heart your DD too

[DisorganisednotDysfunctional]

"unlike you, of course, you lack the warmth and depth required to be one".

Oh, I like that one, Nicholas. Will steal it for future use.

[WilsonFrickett]

namechange A question for you, Wilson - can you easily access stuff that people post on Facebook, Twitter etc

Obviously it depends on the person. Sweeping generalisation, but the older you are, the more likely you are to be concerned about privacy so the chances of someone being able to access your online presence is minimised.

Today's teenagers - as a general rule - do not seem that fussed about their privacy settings, so yes, a little googling and a little bit of following your nose and you can usually find out an awful lot about a younger person.

In my previous employment - we certainly wouldn't have been encouraged to do any online checks as they were very big on not allowing your personal prejudices interfere with the recruitment process. In my current life (small business owner) I google most people before I do business with them. (Nosiness, really.) I also google myself every month or so to check I'm still as tightly protected as I think I am.

It's been a while since I worked in large organisations though and I would be very, very, surprised if some employers don't do a google sweep as part of their referencing procedure. And this will become more and more popular.

Put it this way. Most businesses don't want to take on employees who, say, take recreational drugs. Previously you would have had no way of finding this out, apart from drug tests, which is a step too far for most companies in terms of legislation and resources. But if you can now simply google someone and see them with wild eyes and a caption saying 'on it big style' which was posted last Saturday... What conclusion are you going to reach and what decision are you going to make about that person? (Note I'm not saying if this is right or wrong! I'm just saying this is what's now possible)

Sorry for hi-jack OP.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Some people will be posting at work and prefer to use asterisks for that reason.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Fuck fuck fuckity bollocks, arse toss, biscuit, wank fuck, dick, sputum

I cannot believe the sheer utter wankiness of some people.

Oh, hold on, yes I can.

For fucks, fuckity fucking fucker's sake.

Fuck off.

Your dd sounds ace NT.

[givemeaclue]

How disappointing that she doesn't consider herself a feminist..why not?

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

You were the first one OMC

What a fucking derail.

[namechangeguy]

The reason I did put blanks instead of the full words is because I am aware that as a male my status is slightly different here. I tend to avoid swearing on MN because I don't want to be accused of being an angry, aggressive, sweary male in what is primarily a female space.

I have a daughter just about the same age as NT's. That is why I took an interest in his OP. I do worry about the kind of stuff my daughter might put out there on t'internet, and what might come back to haunt her. From Wilson's post, this stuff can come back and bite you on the bum in future.

[Pan]

I'm with both views...swearing a lot does NOT equal 'passion', and vice versa. It can indicate lots of other things. And of course fb gives evidence that remains around on t'internet for ever.

For a particular dd, it's difficult. If my dd, who is a couple of years younger than NT's, I'd be a bit at her mode of expression.

But it's also great to see youngies taking firm stances on what's important, and letting everyone who she knows be left in no equivocal understanding.

[NicholasTeakozy]

namechangeguy Wed 27-Mar-13 20:30:19

The reason I did put blanks instead of the full words is because I am aware that as a male my status is slightly different here. I tend to avoid swearing on MN because I don't want to be accused of being an angry, aggressive, sweary male in what is primarily a female space.

Really? I've never avoided swearing on MN. I don't think I've ever been treated differently to any other poster, despite being openly male and quite often sweary. You see, unlike some men who post in this section I want to learn about feminism, not women on what my view of what it should be.

To those of you who only got the "I don't consider myself a feminist" bit of my OP, please remember she is 17. Don't worry, there is plenty of time for me to convince her she is. And judging by the way she won her argument it ain't gonna take much. She wants equality, which is only a nudge away from feminism, so it should be fairly easy, as long as she can see that feminists come from all walks of life, and that the only reason I'm not a feminist is because, as a man, I cannot see life from any perspective other than that of male privilege.

Epic name change Fastidia, love it! :o

[NicholasTeakozy]

Balls. I meant not lecture women. As opposed to not women, which makes no sense. Soz. :o

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

I changed it in honour of your DD NT.