Can we talk about makeup? Really interesting thread in Chat got me thinking about 'intimacy' and makeup.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Thread here, FWIW: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1703915-to-think-putting-on-your-make-up-in-public-isnt-rude-or-anti-social

I don't want to derail it (more ), so came over here.

How do you understand the cultural implications of wearing or putting on makeup? I'm asking because people were talking about whether it's socially acceptable to put on makeup in public. Several of the replies suggested that putting on makeup is an 'intimate' act. Something I found really fascinating was someone said it was comparable to undressing in terms of its intimacy, which is interesting when you think about it, because of course you are putting something on, not taking something off, but they do have similar cultural status - you get undressed in the bedroom or in a cubicle; you do your makeup in your bathroom or in the mirror in the loo at work.

I can see how putting on makeup could be about creating a mask, which suggests women's 'naked' faces should be disguised, but I wondered how and why it came to be seen as intimate or private. It is seen as quite sexy, isn't it, the act of putting on makeup, when you think about films where they linger over women doing their faces?

What do you reckon - and do you personally find that putting on makeup is intimate, or something you judge people for doing in public?

I don't wear make up often these days but would have no qualms about putting it on in front of people.

There is nothing remotely sexy about my 'slap it on as quickly as possible' technique.

It isn't exactly intimate when you get a crowd squeezing round the mirror in the ladies' loos on a night out- in fact it can be a very communal experience, with people swapping items of make-up, helping each other, borrowing hairspray etc etc.

I think that the 'intimacy' taboo is actually more centred around a woman's 'feminine mystique', the idea of 'beauty secrets', and a set of rituals which are private from the male gaze. It can be seen as both a bonding experience between women (the fun of getting ready with a drink together for a night out), and an element of armoury or even deception towards men. We all know stories (or have been that woman ourselves) of getting up at 5am and sneaking some mascara on before 'waking up' officially with a new lover.

I wouldn't say it was intimate or private as such, but I don't much like seeing someone doing full make up (you know, not just a quick flash of mascara and some gloss) on the train. I don't much want to watch anyone groom themselves in detail on a train - whether that is braiding their hair, men waxing and styling their hair or whatever.

I find it odd when anyone does anything you would normally see as a fully domestic activity on the train. It'd been weird and unsettling if someone got out a bowl and a bottle of milk and a spoon and tucked in, whereas it's fine to munch on a croissant from a packet.

Hmm, will think more.

I think it's intimate, in that observing someone putting on make up is usually watching someone lost in their own world (applying eye liner takes concentration, for example) and doing something transformative that is more usually done in private. It is almost voyeuristic. But it isn't quite (which is why I'm comfortable applying makeup in public but not stripping!)

I think what BOF says resounds with me - that women are supposed to be groomed / look good all the time and simultaneously make this seem "effortless". So doing it in public shows it up for things it is not supposed to be eg a necessary task to perform rather than "pampering yourself" for personal enjoyment, that it is something you clearly would rather not do on the tube but needs to be done so it gets done there, that sort of thing.

I put my makeup on, on the tube/train every morning. I am not going to get up early in order to do it. It's something that in my job and at my age I feel more of a pressure to have something on - I used to only wear makeup when I felt like it or it was expected eg night out rather than doing it for work as a matter of course.

I feel that if the patriarchy expect me to wear makeup I will don it on their time

However I don't do my hair on the train etc unless there is no-one around due to elbow considerations.

If you're not poking anyone in the eye then what does it matter.

"I feel that if the patriarchy expect me to wear makeup I will don it on their time"

Love this

I don't live in London (so maybe this happens all the time, what would I know) but I was on the tube there last year and a woman got on just after me. She was a pale redhead, with her hair tied back and a 'librarian' look about her. (Quiet and unassuming...don't flame me, leary librarians)

She proceeded to get her makeup bag out and applied the works for the next six stops.
By the time she had reached her stop she was transformed. Vivacious and stunning, red lipstick, flowing titian tresses.

I bet the other librarians were all jealous of her looks. She looked like a superhero off to save the world.
And I was glad of the entertainment!

Btw am also jealous of people who can apply mascara without a mirror.

I once worked with a guy that would only do a dump "on company time". I loved him for his fingers up approach so I'm loving "I feel that if the patriarchy expect me to wear makeup I will don it on their time".

Em, what do I feel?

I felt sick the other day when a seemingly intelligent man (on FB) congratulated women on International Women's Day by listing all the women that deserved it while saying fuck you to orange-make-up-laden women who were a bad influence on "our girls". Arghhh, why are clever people so blind?

It does happen all the time in London - I suspect commutes may be longer here on average and more people get public transport? certainly it is just a bog-standard thing to see.

I don't see applying makeup to be an intimate act either.

Things to object to on public transport are things that smell or are messy. Makeup is neither (assuming it's not wide random dustings of bronzing powder!).

Putting perfume on, on the train would be outrageous.
Ditto shaving anything.

I think the fact that some people view it as something to be done in private suggests that it's something almost shameful, in the same way that it's socially unacceptable to be naked/ go to the loo in public. It's almost as if women are expected to be 'perfect' by default and reminding others that this has to be achieved by applying a mask creates discomfort.

Yes, that rings true BOF, both the male gaze bit and how amongst a group of women it's a communal experience. I quite like being on a train when a group of girls are getting ready because it's quite sweet, that aspect of it (and because of good and bad memories ).

I do love the idea of doing makeup 'on the patriarchy's time'.

yama, that is horrible.

I suppose what annoys me is the implication that women who put makeup on in public are somehow 'letting the side down' or being uncouth. I can see that some things are not very hygienic (hair stuff), and others are smelly (nails, perfume), but most aren't. Children get their faces painted in public all the time (not that I usually do tiger stripes on myself).