Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hilary Mantel on the Duchess of Cambridge

22 replies

Lollydaydream · 21/02/2013 00:07

I am really curious to know what you think of Hilary Mantek's comments about the Duchess of Cambridge from a feminist perspective. I must admit I have only read newspaper reports not a full account in context but I immediately veer towards thinking her comments are unkind and that it is against the 'sisterhood' to criticize another woman for basically existing and marrying. Yes Kate appears to mainly wear nice clothes and not say much, but so what? If anything is at fault it's the constant reporting of nothing news about her, which is not her fault.

Please enlighten me, why would such an intelligent women as Hilary Mantel publicly criticise another woman for so little.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 21/02/2013 01:14

I think the original text has been reported quite selectively, but it's too late to search for a link.

sashh · 21/02/2013 01:34

She didn't though did she?

She was talking about royal women from the Tudors to present day.

RememberingMyPFEs · 21/02/2013 06:38

The original article is here ( I've done this from app, so apologies if link doesn't link properly)

The comments have been taken out of context completely and, while harsh, really weren't about Kate per se but rather the monarchy and the press in general. Well worth reading!!
HTH

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 21/02/2013 07:16

Thanks PFE (and thanks for the clench reminder!)

spots · 21/02/2013 07:31

good article in the guardian by hadley freeman:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/19/hilary-mantel-duchess-cambridge-scandal

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 21/02/2013 08:29

Wow, the LRB article is a great read.

kim147 · 21/02/2013 08:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolidGoldBrass · 21/02/2013 12:19

I posted about this on my blog. The original piece is great stuff and is in fact compassionate towards Kate Windsor, not spiteful in the least. The way it's been reported, and the number of brain-donors shitting themselves over it without having read it is quite depressing.

HesterBurnitall · 21/02/2013 12:22

I think Mantel's speech/essay was fab, the Mail article a piece of shit and Cameron a fool to say what he did.

Another good take on it to add to Hadley Freeman's www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/poor-hilary-has-royal-message-lost-in-rush-to-shout-her-down-20130220-2erof.html

sassytheFIRST · 21/02/2013 12:23

This has finally motivated me to get going with something I've intended to do for ages - start a for my 6th form students www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=8871262727694931499#editor/target=post;postID=127059084573689416

Mantel's comments have been so vastly misrepresented. That lady speaks sense. And as for Kate - I'm not sure she speaks at all, does she?

TunipTheVegedude · 21/02/2013 13:43

The real issue here is with two things IMO: the misogyny of the attacks on Mantel (going on about her appearance, voice etc) and the delight the press seems to take in making an intelligent woman out to be bitchily attacking another when she clearly wasn't.

Oh, and the stupidity (or cynicism) of Cameron in being prepared to weigh in when Mantel hadn't said anything like she was supposed to have done. FFS he is the PM, even if he's too busy to read it could no-one in his office have done so?

kim147 · 21/02/2013 13:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lessthanaballpark · 21/02/2013 14:17

The media, DM especially, loves to pit women against each other. What HM said about KM wasn't nasty, it was supportive. From her speech:

"We don?t cut off the heads of royal ladies these days, but we do sacrifice them, and we did memorably drive one to destruction a scant generation ago."

and

"I?m not asking for censorship. I?m not asking for pious humbug and smarmy reverence. I?m asking us to back off and not be brutes."

To me, she's just asking the public not to use royal women as fodder for our own entertainment. And she's right.

Trust the press to take her words and twist them, vultures that they are.

kim147 · 21/02/2013 14:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lessthanaballpark · 21/02/2013 14:35

I wouldn't be surprised if she knows it already. But I guess she sees it as all part of the trade-off / deal.

pofacedplot · 21/02/2013 16:12

As the wonderful Caitlin Moran said on Twitter. "Not understanding Hilary Mantel's critique of the media" is proving to be Twitter's first Sorting Hat moment of 2013.''

This is the second thread on Mantel started by an OP who hasn't actually read the essay. Why would you do that?

agree with Tunip.

Lollydaydream · 21/02/2013 21:05

Why did I do that; well it had got to the end of long day in which I'd read this at the start of the day in the metro and the end of the day in the evening standard. It had bugged me all day and as it was reported as being from a speech I didn't think it would be easy to find. Also even as an example of misrepresenting reporting I thought it would have some worth for discussion. Thank you so much for the link, a really interesting read and having read it I wouldn't so much say that Hilary Mantel's remarks have been taken out of context as much as misquoted. As I recall what I read words such as 'appears'. and 'becoming' have been omitted changing. the comments from analogy to statement (I'm sure I"m not using quite the right words there). I don't know what's worse the media's continued insistence on pitting women against women; it's focus on Kate's every footstep and desire to create stories where there are none or it's inability to comprehend intelligently constructed prose and argument.

What can we do about this? Don't forget many people will have read it as I did, auto-reading the freesheets on the train without time to contemplate it. Stuff of this tenor is just all around us and is justified as being news; I just find it so depressing.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub · 21/02/2013 21:19

It is depressing how newspapers misrepresent this sort of thing - this was clearly a scholarly speech/article about how royal women were viewed over time, including historic and present day examples, and it's been painted as some kind of cat fight. If you look behind pretty much every statistic or similar a newspaper quotes in a headline, the headline is often misleading - for example, there was one in the Metro a while back about "most pregnant women have two months' off sick" - the text did at least say (once) that this was a Norwegian study but nothing further - I did some digging and Norwegians get something like 100% sick pay for ages funded by the government - so I imagine their base level of sick absence is higher than in the UK where many people are unpaid if sick. It's sensationalist nonsense and it drives me potty, so I don't read the metro.

BettyBlueBlue · 22/02/2013 07:45

People should be free to comment on people regardless of their sex. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I cannot criticise or express my comments on other women. I should be free to do so. A movement that doesn't embrace discrepancy or opposition is more like a tyranny. I think feminism gets stronger by allowing intelligent criticism of society, of both men and women in it, than by silencing it.

It's not about the gender of the person making the statement. It's more about a person who has brain and used it, making a comment about someone who "maybe" has got brain but has no intention of using it because she's now too royal and upper class not to have to.

I think Hilary Mantel's comments are absolutely spot on. In her speech, she was critical not only of Kate, but the royal establishment and the dysfunctional relationship the British public has with it.

I agree with Mantel that Kate is a lady who shows not talent, no personality, no intelligence, nothing apart from wearing clothes and fulfilling some old female stereotype that is obviously the easy option for a comfortable, conflict free life. But that's what the establishment, conservative Britain wants. The blander the Royals, the better.

After all, look what happened to Diana when her character, sensitivity and intelligence shone through. All the royals were quick to criticise and ostracise her.

The real shame about Kate is that society, especially "conservative society" expects women to be more like her than Mantel. After all, Mantel might incite thinking and conflict. We can all rest assured that Kate won't.

seeker · 22/02/2013 07:50

And Cameron's intervention was entirely cynical.

BettyBlueBlue · 22/02/2013 08:00

Cameron's intervention was the voice of "conservative Britain", the brain and arms of the patriarchy, putting little naughty Mantel in her place: "Bad girl, you're wrong, back to your place". "How dare you criticise lovely, submissive Kate?".

His comments were absolutely wrong and misguided, and show just how patronising the powerful club of posh boys at the top can be. He should concentrate on doing his job properly rather than police other people's thoughts.

Maybe this whole media spat was just the right device he needed to distract attention and cover up some dodgy arms selling deal with India. Call me cynical.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread