The post 50 Shades of Grey world ....

[AnyFucker]

Valentine's day coming up.

We have tv ads for Ann Summers at 9pm.

We have LoveHoney ads pushing the "blindfold, whips and delicious pain" approach to "loving relationships"

Great.

[WidowWadman]

It's the relationship in 50 shades (and Twilight which it is based on for that matter), which is fucked up, not neccessarily the sex they're having. Nothing wrong with a bit of sexual experimenting, as long as everyone involved feels comfortable with it.

Plenty of people do enjoy all kinds of kinks, including powerplay and wearing frilly negliges without being in fucked up abusive relationships. They shouldn't be derided or patronised for it. We've come a long way since the times were sex was something dirty not to be talked about and fantasies something to be ashamed of,do you want to go back there?

[PretzelTime]

I'm of the opposite opinion WW, I think female pleasure and that talking about female experiences that doesn't match the patriarchal ideas/ideals are still seen as taboo or as something annoying/uppity/feminist.

[AnyFucker]

Who said anybody wanted to go back to a time where women's sexuality is not to be talked about ?

50SOG is not about women's sexuality.

[frustratedworkingmum]

I used to like BDSM until i read that book! Seriously it completely turned me around - the thought of a jumped up little fucker like Mr Grey lording it over me makes my teeth itch!! I would be quite happy if my DP bought me a new sex toy or sexy underwear for v day i would not be wanting any connection to Mr Fecking Dysfunctional. No thankyou very much.

PretzelTime I always thought that frigging was the word for female masturbation, or that wanking was unisex :)

[WidowWadman]

AnyFucker, plenty of middleaged women seem to enjoy crafty wanks to it, doesn't seem to have a huge male readership either.

I really don't want to defend the book too much as I share your opinion that it's shite. I find the babygrows pretty yeuch too. But handwringing over lingerie and sex toy adverts?

Claiming that toys, lingerie, and erotica are not about female sexuality is pretty dismissive and purports a very narrow view about what female sexuality can entail.

[MechanicalTheatre]

Widow, I don't think anyone here has an issue with the sex in 50SOG. It's the relationship. And the fact that it's shit.

Toys, lingerie and erotica can be about female sexuality, but it is a very narrow view of female sexuality - and male sexuality.

[PretzelTime]

I thought frigging was a nicer word to say when you didn't want to use a certain swear word! MN, so educational.

[MechanicalTheatre]

I say "jacking off" for masturbation for either sex. My friend says "jilling off" for women, but I find it a bit twee.

[PretzelTime]

Yes jilling off is twee. And then there is "schlicking" which is just gross.

[HairyHandedTrucker]

Ann Summers is for women. Women can go in feel comfortable going in there, it's on the high street. My problem with it is that it feels very geared toward women dressing up or for hen party crap. All the good stuff is hidden at the back and in the normal shops on the high street there is really very little round the back to be of much interest. I do feel like it is really more there for men .

And I don't know any women who dress up for themselves. Dildos and the lot yes that is for her.. But dressing up is not for her.

[HairyHandedTrucker]

Can a word for masturbation be twee?

Never heard of schlicking, why is it gross?

[AnyFucker]

I am not "handwringing" WW. That is a dismissive thing to say.

I didn't say sex toys, lingerie and erotica are a problem. Where have I said that ? What I do find a problem is the creeping presence of it. Ann Summers ads at 9pm (yes, I know it's the "watershed" whatever the fuck that means...but I feel it should be later). Shite like 50SOG contributes to the normalisation of sex being part of everything we do. Watch Coronation Street...get confronted by ads for whips and sex toys. No thankyou.

You are not reading what I am writing, WW. Or you are adding your own spin, to paint me as "handwringing". Take your pick, readers.

[WidowWadman]

"Shite like 50SOG contributes to the normalisation of sex being part of everything we do"

The normalisation of sex is a bad thing to you? Cripes. Sex is an important part of human lives. Yes, there are asexual people, and that's perfectly fine, sometimes people have a stronger, sometimes a weaker libido.
As long as noone forces their sexuality (or lack of) onto somebody else against their will, it's all fine and dandy.

Normalising sex as something enjoyable, not shameful, is a positive message - because it enables people to talk about it -the good things, and the bad things. In a society where sex is taboo, it's much harder to talk about it, which can't have a good effect.

[MechanicalTheatre]

Widow, you're really twisting AF's words.

She said "the normalisation of sex being part of everything we do" not "the normalisation of sex". Very different things.

I don't see men being bought frilly, fluffy thongs for V day.

[NeedlesCuties]

HairyHanded I take your point about 50SOG being aimed at a middle-aged audience. In my earlier post I meant more the prevalence for sex to = S & M, or kinkiness when shown in music vids etc that teens and young adults watch.

I think it's all part of the same disease. If you're a woman then you're a plaything, a pretty thing to be pushed around while looking 'fabulous'. I don't see any prob if 2 adults want to have sex in any way they want, it's just the idea that it's mainstream and what everyone should be at which annoys me.

[PretzelTime]

It's a very specific sexual ideal the ads push too. The lingerie ads around Valentine's Day... they read to me like we should think love = straight sex =women's lingerie = nice stuff for men to look at. Women as object man as subject. That's the message of the majority of such ads.

Schlick is gross (to me) because it's an onomatopoeia like fap and it's basically immature internet lingo.

[AnyFucker]

WW who are you having a conversation with ?

it ain't me, that's for sure

is it someone in your head ?

[HairyHandedTrucker]

Oh sorry, yes, you are right needles. And if they can show whips and chains at 9'clock at night it will just be one more thing the average 16 year old girl is going to be expected to have in her repertoire.

Slightly off topic, I was just thinking how happy I am that the internet only was just starting to take off when I was a teenager. Dial up pretty much killed even the most driven teenage boys attempt at porn watching. Can you imagine what it must be like for young people today who see so much porn of all kinds and can get it anywhere and on any device.

[AnyFucker]

"sex is taboo" ?

Erm, no

[HairyHandedTrucker]

Thanks Pretzel, I didn't understand that.. (guess it doesn't sounds like that to me ).

[Portofino]

Totally agree AF - it is normalising the kinky stuff, making women feel bad if they DON'T like it.

[HairyHandedTrucker]

What do you think it will be like in 50 years if everything that is considered "kinky" now then becomes "vanilla" (hate that word). Will sex become some sort of extreme sport or will people long for the days of covered ankles and long john pajamas?

[AnyFucker]

ads for whips and sex toys during CBeebies ?

it's natural though, innit ? To "handwring" about that is denying women's sexuality.

[frustratedworkingmum]

I think the whole "normalisation" of kinky stuff spoils it - for me, it loses its edge and naughtiness when i realise that everyone is at it!

Sex is fucking fantastic, i love it, but i don't want to be confronted with it in the supermarket (except when im up for a bit of kink and i buy an extra large corgette and a packet of condoms as a "sign" to DP that hes in for a good night).

[frustratedworkingmum]

no its definately a word for female masturbtion - actually there are loads, "strumming" "flicking the bean"