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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Five men facing death penalty after bus rape

522 replies

allthegoodnamesweretaken · 13/01/2013 19:15

BBC news link here

I'm feeling conflicted about this. Obviously what these men did was horrific, vile and unforgivable. But I just cannot agree with the death penalty.

I feel like I am somehow excusing what they did by not wanting them to be killed, and I can't emphasise enough how despicable I find their actions.

Does the fact that they violated the poor woman's human rights so violently and abhorrently mean they should have their right to life taken away too? Am i being too soft?

I suppose I am asking how you all feel about this, how do you think they should be punished? Also have you ever had your feminist views conflict with other principles, and how have you dealt with this?

OP posts:
ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 15/01/2013 16:28

Will removing the death penalty make the social conditions better?
The public needs some heads to roll
They have really had enough.
A few heads rolling may actually make women feel more valued.
I read a case for instance where a child rapist was held not guilty of culpable homicide because the seven year old child had bled out and it was held the rapist could not have reasonably foreseen that she would have bled to death!!!
The government has to do something drastic.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 15/01/2013 16:30

A little dose of the reality of rape sentencing here

ColinFirthsGirth · 15/01/2013 16:32

I am against the death penalty in all circumstances. I do believe that the men should be in prison until they die.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 16:33

"Will removing the death penalty make the social conditions better?"

Possibly. Maybe it'll force people to look at the bigger picture rather than just looking at these 5 men. I suspect that once these men have died the fuss will die down. Keep them alive and maybe the outrage will continue on to the general treatment of women and vulnerable people.

"A few heads rolling may actually make women feel more valued. "

Surely that'll only work if all rapists are killed, rather than just the ones that make the headlines? But then if all rapists are likely to get the death penalty then they might be more likely to murder the victims as well? Which surely puts the women at risk still?

The death penalty is a knee jerk reaction which only works to appease the anger and stop those individuals reoffending. Which is important, but there are other ways to stop them reoffending.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 16:34

Rape sentencing is utterly wrong right now, and not just in India. So it needs to be improved, not bypassed entirely.

5madthings · 15/01/2013 16:34

Sorry farleynutts I am not clear what you are saying? Are you saying I shouldn't have posted what I did?

I am very uncomfortable being told I am not a feminist, that I am mysoginistic and a rape apologist just because I disagree with the death penalty.

Its actually hugely offensive and hurtful tbh, I find what these men did abhorrent and as the law stands in India they can be killed for their crime, I respect the Indian authorities right to do this, but I will never support the death penalty.

5madthings · 15/01/2013 16:35

And what goths said.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 15/01/2013 16:35

murder I do agree with you that it might make rapists kill in addition to rape. Which is the only reason I personally was a bit conflicted on death for rapists
Though as this particular case shows, it wasn't really disincentive from giving the victim gruesome life threatening injuries.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 16:43

True. Unfortunately if only these men are killed then it seems like they are saying that only some rapes are bad.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/01/2013 16:54

This is now a murder case and should be treated as such -

I don't believe in the death penalty for rape because as has been discussed, it means the rapist might as well kill too.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 16:55

"This is now a murder case and should be treated as such"

Shame the death penalty has been shown to not discourage murder at all.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/01/2013 16:58

Will the death penalty here send a signal that this is neither normal or acceptable? Yes
Would a life sentence achieve the same? No. No way. It will be a victory for the murderers and all violent men. That is the reality in India today.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/01/2013 17:04

What has not discouraged rape and murder of women is a massive culture of oppression of women.

Do I think death penalty will deter future murders? Not really, no.

Do I think it will say to women that you are important, you don't deserve this and it's wrong? Yes, I think it does.

ExpatAl · 15/01/2013 17:25

A lot of this thread has really made me think.
I am desperately sorry for Jyoti's friend and her family. It's bad enough to know that your daughter has been murdered but to hear such graphic terrible details. I cannot imagine. Perhaps they will get a tiny bit of comfort from knowing that her death has been a huge catalyst for change.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 17:28

ThisIs I guess we'll never be able to compare the different attitudes that would entail from having the death penalty or not in this case. Anecdotally, as far as I'm aware the places with the death penalty are generally the places where women are least valued.

I can't help feeling that a society that values life enough that they can't even agree with killing criminals is a society that is more likely to value other things like a woman's right to control her own body.

5madthings · 15/01/2013 17:39

Sorry I am aware Farley is probably busy but I am not sure if a am reading her post right, where she quoted my post. I hope I haven't upset you Farley as that was not my intention.

Tbh this thread is too much, there are some great posts by goths trills and other buy some posts, particularly those by wantstobefree are actually incredibly upsetting.

I think I am going to step away from this thread.

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 17:44

5madthings I think Farley was agreeing with you, that's the impression I got anyway. Look after yourself.

duchesse · 15/01/2013 17:52

Some studies in the US seem to suggest that states with the death penalty have higher rates of violent crime and murder than states without. I will try to track down some links to that research.

5madthings · 15/01/2013 17:54

I couldn't tell if she was agreeing or not, this thread or rather certain posters on it are getting to me. Thanks goths xx

duchesse · 15/01/2013 17:56

Here's a graph I am aware that it comes from an anti-death penalty organisation but it does use fairly irrefutable data.

ExpatAl · 15/01/2013 17:59

Oh 5madthings I can't think how I missed your original post. I'm horrified that you felt you had to post your story to defend your views from people who were spouting nonsense. I'm so sorry this thread has upset you. Look after yourself.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/01/2013 18:01

I am happy we don't have the death penalty here and I don't want it.

However, they Do have it in India and therefore, they should use it. Let this be the last, if you like, but don't tell women that this case wasn't bad enough to warrant it.

Thisisaeuphemism · 15/01/2013 18:02

I'm sorry if I upset anyone too Sad

MurderOfGoths · 15/01/2013 18:43

Thisisaeuphemism That's a fair point. I can see why a country with a death penalty not using it only in this case would be wrong.

Do wish nowhere had the death penalty.

duchesse · 15/01/2013 19:36

I totally agree with you euphemism.

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