Five men facing death penalty after bus rape

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

BBC news link here

I'm feeling conflicted about this. Obviously what these men did was horrific, vile and unforgivable. But I just cannot agree with the death penalty.

I feel like I am somehow excusing what they did by not wanting them to be killed, and I can't emphasise enough how despicable I find their actions.

Does the fact that they violated the poor woman's human rights so violently and abhorrently mean they should have their right to life taken away too? Am i being too soft?

I suppose I am asking how you all feel about this, how do you think they should be punished? Also have you ever had your feminist views conflict with other principles, and how have you dealt with this?

It's a known fact that specifically rapists, paedophiles and thieves go on to re-offend, despite having received appropriate reform, therapy and care.

Waynetta "rapists and paedophiles have something severely wrong with them. Whether its genetic or a chosen path, scientists and psychotherapists are still researching, but they do not change and pose a terrible risk to normal people."

That being the case, surely it makes more sense to keep them alive so scientists and researchers can study them and try to work out what makes them the way they are, than it does to kill them and waste that opportunity to use information gained from them in the protection of society?

So what? Do you think these Indian rapists are going to get free?

"It's a known fact that specifically rapists, paedophiles and thieves go on to re-offend, despite having received appropriate reform, therapy and care."

Well that is a good argument for longer sentences (or in life meaning life). It's not an argument for the death penalty IMO.

"You think the death penalty is not a deterrent"

Well no, it doesn't seem to be. America dishes out the death penalty for murder. However the murder rate there is massive.

You used the word "confidential", I merely took it from your post; the same post where you insulted people debating on this thread.

My second remark relates to your vociferous stance about some people being sub human and incurable or irredeemable. It's not representative of any care or health professional training I've encountered. But, you must be the expert, seeing as I'm just a "twit".

Aufaniae. Yes I suppose so too. I mean, a few more baby girls might have to die or undergo hysterectomies because of the internal damage that's been done to them, and a lot of people might end up in therapy or commit suicide/destroy their families because of past rape or sexual abuse, but hey, let's keep the animals alive and do a few tests. That'll solve it. Maybe in 20 years. Maybe 50 years. Maybe never.

Anyway, lets leave it up to India and jyoti's supporters. None of which are on this forum. They will decide what happens to the men. I have good faith it will be a painful and humiliating death.

"I am against the death penalty in general, however, I think the authorities have no choice but to use it here. Anything less would be seen as an insult - and in such a high profile case as this, it's important to send the message that this is not acceptable."

Otherwise I agree with MurderofGoths and ExpatAl. Seems to make me a hypocrite, but I can live with that wrt this case. And were it took place. And what punishments are already in place in the Indian justice system.

Waynetta, you are seriously not doing your POV any favours .

And after their deaths, what then?

Nothing you've said is about applying any change that would prevent further harm.

PacificDogwood why have you just PMd me thanking me for my consideration? Why not just say in on here? I find that a bit weird

I've said it more than once: these things cannot be reformed and trusted not to re offend. Why the hell do you think in Saudi (hypocritical awful extremist country as it is) has such a low crime rate? The same with Dubai and other countries..they will kill you or chop your hand off. It pretty much works in scaring criminals into thinking twice. I think with sufficient evidence and sensible trial, the death penalty could be enforced successfully without the murder of innocent people, and act as a deterrent to stop the breeding grounds of rapists and paedophiles. Don't forget these disgusting animals conduct sex rings with kids as well as email indecent pics of abuse all around the world to each other.

"I've said it more than once: these things cannot be reformed and trusted not to re offend."

No one has said to just let them out.

I like how you are ignoring all the evidence that proves the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent. And the evidence that says places with a death penalty for murder actually have more murders than those without the death penalty.

Sorry, I got distracted when I hit post - I was going to report the 'twit'. And tell you about it. RL got in the way. Nevermind.

Waynetta,

You're holding up Saudi Arabia as a bastion of fair justice, yet the abuse of women there and elsewhere in the Middle East is some of the worst in the world.

Yup, you're right, far better to apply a justice system where it's acceptable to stone women to death for perceived adultery or for being the victim of rape... Unbelievable!

Jesus Christ. There you go again dear MysteryCat, NOT reading my post properly..or selectively in your case. Look at what I just posted about Saudi or do you need your reading glasses perhaps? Where did I hold up that country as 'a bastion of fair justice'? You saw my point clearly and are choosing to try and twist words. Good luck with that. Pacific. you were going to report the word 'twit'? How mature and what a difference that will undoubtedly make to the world. Cheerio as I'm pretty much done speaking to human rights activists. Jyoti would turn in her grave hearing this conversation. May she rest in peace and may you all grow a brain. Ta ta.

Yes, noticed that too mysterycat. But still, they chop off a hand so they're alright.

Should also point out, no one who is against the death penalty has resorted to personal insults. Mostly because we understand why you feel the way you do, it's only natural to want the blood of criminals like that. It is also only natural to want to dissociate from them with words like "monster" and "sub human". It makes utter sense to want to see retribution. Of course it does, it stirs our deepest primal instincts. To defend our own. To want to defend the victims. To attack the attackers. And all that is fantastic and shows you care deeply and value all the things that need to be valued. It's wonderful.

The problem is that despite all of that,the death penalty isn't actually logical and doesn't achieve anything. Aside from appeasing those instincts.

It doesn't help the victim. It doesn't help future victims. It doesn't help society.

No matter that all your instincts are baying for blood (mine too incidentally), those instincts aren't grounded in fact or logic. And justice has to be grounded in fact and logic. Justice has to look at the bigger picture.

"Jyoti would turn in her grave hearing this conversation."

Did you know her and her views on the death penalty?

Cheerio as I'm pretty much done speaking to human rights activists

SUCH a contemptible breed, these damn human rights activists.

PS Did you know the victim personally? Just wondering why you keep using just her first name rather than her whole name.

Must be 'armless then expat

Maybe we should bring back the death penalty for bad puns

Alright, alright, it's a fair cop. I'll put my hands up to that one!

[self restraint emoticon]

Waynetta, I was agreeing with you as far as the death penalty for these men went. Not how you were going about arguing for it.

Saudi

^"Jyoti would turn in her grave hearing this conversation."

Did you know her and her views on the death penalty?^

Also - her opinion does not automatically have more weight. A person who is a victim of a crime does not necessarily have better or more valid thoughts about what is the appropriate or effective punishment for that crime.