Random men speaking to you

[enimmead]

I'm sure men don't randomly speak to other men in the street. Strangers. So why the hell do they feel they have to speak to random women. I don't think it's got anything to do with chatting up.

Yesterday, I saw a 20 something bloke with his mates slip in front of me on the ice. As I got out, he said "Hi love, did you see that!!!" I'm could be his mum bit older than him. Why speak to me? I just smiled but I bet he wouldn't' have said anything if I'd been male.

Just walking down the street, other side of the road bloke smiles and says "Hi love". No idea who he was.

Do blokes do this to other random blokes?

I think people are unintentionally misrepresenting the meaning of amillionyears post. She meant (I think) that sometimes she wasn't sure if people were being rude but gave them the benefit of the doubt anyway.

I think she meant that too. But the reason it is catching people wrong (and there's no reason amillion would have known this, I'm just saying I'm pretty sure this is what's bothering people) is that it's a fairly common sort of truism that is said when men do something nasty. 'Why did he feel so alienated from society?' 'Well, perhaps the problem is he didn't feel loved enough'.

I'm seeing these comments on my facebook pages after those awful news stories in the US and over here about men who, very tragically, killed their families and then themselves. So, it did make me think a bit.

Obviously talking to people in the street is a totally different order of activity (!!), and I can see why someone friendly will think it's best just to treat everyone as if they've perhaps been rude for some reason, and to be nice back. I don't think this is a gendered principle - if someone snaps at you bagging up your shopping and you're this sort of nice person, you'll probably tell yourself she or he is just tired or cranky, and you'll be nice back.

The reason that - for me - it becomes a bit uncomfortable is this association that practice of 'being nice to strangers' has with women. I do think women are expected to do a lot of the 'being nice' and smiling (hence 'cheer up love, give us a smile', being a comment typically made to women, because some men like to think they ought to be able to make women smile). There's a very Victorian/Edwardian idea (which my granny would have loved) that women are naturally better at adding a little social ease to situations, that they ought to be sociable and pleasant because everyone likes a smiling girl and it cheers up the men, who're naturally more gruff, what with their Masculine Natures.

Ok, we can snigger now, but I do think the vestiges of that attitude are still seen in everyday social intereaction. And I think at their extreme, they come out in these reactions to the tragedies I mentioned above, where people wonder what the woman didn't do, that her partner or family member killed her.

Sure, it's a completely extreme connection to make and I stress I'm not comparing the two situations ... but that is what amillion's phrasing happened to make me think of, with its language of 'not being loved', so I thought I'd put it out there in case it helps explain why some posters are reacting to it a bit.

Actually they all go for DH, sly bastards, they know he is a pushover.

I have a couple of questions for the OP, so that hopefully I will not make the same mistake;

1. Was it the guy's age that bothered you (would it have been as annoying if he had been over 60, or a boy)?
2. What rules should we adhere to for such social interactions (based on ages of the participants, or opposite genders, or anything else I should be aware of)? Would I, as a 40-ish bloke, be better off just not engaging at all, or in certain situations? (I am aware of the obvious, such as not shouting across distances etc.)

As for my own experiences, I have found this happens to me far more in the USA. People seem far more open, helpful and friendly when compared to the UK, and are far more willing to start a random conversation.

One last thing. In the OP's example, the guy seemed to be asking a question - 'Did you...?'. He does not appear to be talking at you, but rather engaging in social interaction.

Cats know better than to call me love.

I think cats must feel immensely patronized, actually.

'But I am a mighty hunter! I have vanquished many small spiders and caught the occasional cunning beetle! And yet you call me pusskins. Come the revolution, you shall be first to die ...'

inde, yes that is what I meant.

I do not mind strangers talking to me but quite a few times because I have not responded in a grateful manner I have been insulted I also feel many men are oblivious to how vulnerable some women can feel and need to be a little more aware

I feel as a women I have been conditioned to always be nice, sometimes I have felt uncomfortable with attention a man is giving me but if I were to say this or ignore them I am the one often in the wrong why can I not tell a man in a polite way that he is making me feel uncomfortable by crowding me, staring, being over familiar

Women are conditioned to be nice and also those lower in a sense than others smile at those who are above them so the requirement that women smile at people and men is about the exercise of male (or sometimes female) power.

If you are in the street and don't want the man to wolf whistle or look you over or shout cheer up love you can probably come up with some kind of reposte although it is often safer not to. As soon as you move into a business environment where someone has power to hire or fire you it is harder. Women tend to get on at work by doing the smiling thing and indeed can be criticised for work for qualities men are praised for. All fascinating stuff.

I only ever dared to approach a cat in the street once. The fucker regarded me cooing at it, let me stroke its head, then bit me with a consideration becoming of a well thought out decision. Cats are bastards.

That's awful, but also, I'm afraid, quite funny in your telling of it.

A lot of it depends on context, same as everything else. I know what the OP is talking about, but I'm finding it really hard to pin down the context.

I do know that having some drunk bloke plonk himself down next to you and repeatedly say "y'alright love?", when you've made it clear you don't want to chat, is completely different to a cheery "good morning" from an old boy out with his dog.

Sometimes I do engage in chat when out and about, and it normally starts with a very specific comment, often relating to my dogs: "Is that a Great Dane?", "is your dog friendly?" Or it could be a tip-off that the farmer is herding sheep up there, so maybe to walk the other way, or that a particular cheese in the supermarket on offer is very nice. All of these things can lead to a pleasant casual conversation. I don't think I've ever got one out of "y'alright love?" or "where are YOU going?".

Clanger, dogs pretty much guarantee a chat, don't they? I am regularly accosted by people of all ages wanting to chat about the bastard spaniel. Teenagers tend to gravitate towards us. I'm like the Pied Piper of Lynx and Impulse.

Depends on the chat. Two men over 60 or 70 in two consecutive weeks outside the supermarket both said to me they liked the colour of my bike! I don't know if that is a known chat up line or they just liked the colour and that was fine, whereas the various drunk, weird, mad, sexist men the other night was not fine.

Where does the evidence come from that men don't strike up the same type of chat with men? Of course they do. And women probably chat to me at least as often as men do. When I was younger I always thought a man making small talk was going to ask for my number (conceited much?!) but that only ever happened once.

My poor DH.

D'you know, bue, not once in all his 25 years has someone struck up a conversation with him by telling him how pretty he looked, asking him if he was going out somewhere nice tonight, or calling 'looking good!' after him.

What is he doing wrong? What do all these men you know do to get this pleasant attention?

LRD, my DH has been told he's pretty and propositioned Once at a bus stop, and once in a cinema. Both strangers. Both dudes. And there was the memorable Hair Sniffing Incident Of 1997. But we don't talk about that.

At times I feel like I am in a parallel universe on this thread. Most women surely get all these chat up lines from men (I even had one man ask for sex at the end of a business meeting last year and I am not making it up - it was ridiculous. We were here. My adult son was in the house. I don't what he expected, ugly little man). I wonder how many women have ended a business meeting by asking for that?

Obviously most of the time we don't have these problems and if people are saying men have stopped this kind of thing that is great. There is a time and a place to chat women up (or men up) and men should only do it in the right place and context.

The only way to be sure that you are not going to upset someone or make them feel uncomfortable or threatened is to not make smalltalk. I am all for this. The nuances otherwise are just too complicated for me, and I wouldn't know when I am doing it wrong

Better safe than sorry though.

Xenia, that is a cut and dried situation, and wrong on so many levels. Some of the other examples, like the OP and the guy on the ice, have genuinely got me wondering though. It's a bit of a minefield at times, and I am looking for pointers in some of these situations.

namechangeguy, I assume you are a man.
I dont think you should not do small talk. Imagine if all the guys, and women come to that, did that. The world would be a very lonely place for everyone.
I can understand you wanting to do that, but please dont.
I would like to hazzard a guess that 90% of women at least wouldnt want that.

And, I'd suspect you'd be wrong about that amillionyears.