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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

pole dancing for fitness

429 replies

hairyqueenofscots · 19/11/2012 09:36

in my work i work with very highly qualified academics, i am support staff. they have all recently started these classes and burlesque. I have recently got very interested in the feminism on MN. I am saddened these woman are doing this ,they have everything going for them! Am i wrong? be gentle i am a learner :)

OP posts:
HalloweenNameChange · 20/11/2012 00:00

I think it's unfair that something that has been appropriated by the sex industry and did not have it's roots in the sex industry should mean that people can't participate in a normal way> But equally I do think that the vast majority of women who do the classes do it for the sex factor. Also would any of you who do the classes now, have ever heard of Chinese pole gymnastics in order to get started? Or are you following the trend of "pole dancing" for fun and fitness. the women I know who do it as a way to appear sexy or or going.. in a giggly obnoxious "I'm wild" way.

HalloweenNameChange · 20/11/2012 00:01

nothing is immune to facebook photos midway anymore mcmooncup. I am consistently faced with pics of people's half eaten dinner.. half baked baby tummies..

HeffalumpsAndWoozles · 20/11/2012 00:12

I've never felt informed or qualified enough to really get involved with any of the conversations in this topic but I really feel strongly about this subject, so I wanted to add my voice fwiw.

I have been involved with pole fitness for 8 years, I love it, it is fun, a fantastic work out, rewarding and I've made some lifelong friends.

The girls on the pole fitness circuit are some of the nicest and most supportive women I have ever met. My other big love is horses, another predominantly female sport, and the contrast is shocking, in the equestrian world bitching is accepted as the norm (with exceptions of course), support is restricted to people you know and like, and judgements are made on a whim. When I take the horses to a show I am aware I am being judged by women (and men I'm sure) but if I chose to perform in a pole competition I meet nothing but support.

I've often wondered why the pole community is so open and friendly and I wonder if part of it is because we are under enough criticism from the outside from people who are misinformed or unwilling to accept that, despite its 'roots' and unfortunate connotations, pole can be a beautiful form of expressive dance, an amazing display of acrobatic ability and really just bloody good fun.

I even, shock horror, perform occasionally for my DH, in the privacy of our own home, for both our enjoyments. This is the only time I dance for a man, the rest of the time I dance for fitness and fun and my style changes to reflect this. As a few posters have already said surely "each to their own" applies? Or maybe even " don't knock it until you've tried it"?

I hope I haven't come across as rude or provocative, it just upsets me that the thing I love to do and that has helped me so much in terms of confidence and fitness is so often sneered at and judged before given a chance.

KRITIQ · 20/11/2012 00:17

I think what it boils down to is that if you really want to do a thing, whatever your reason, you'll work out a way to rationalise that it's okay to do it, even a good thing to do it.

Looking back over the thread though, in amongst all the arguments about it being a great fitness work out, that it's fun, that it's origins are in Chinese gymnastics, that some men do it, too, that it's definitely not sexually objectifying if you're doing it in a class, for yourself and not performing for men, there are several snippets that suggest otherwise.

Wearing heels, even if this is only in some classes? Doing a "sexy little prance around the pole" to warm up (and thinking it's no biggie if you just opt out of this?) That when some performed for people at work it was nudge nudge wink wink, clearly not seen as fitness or an "art form."

Maybe folks just believe that it's different when they do it, so everyone should just back off.

What I find really interesting about this thread isn't the passionate advocacy of pole dancing as wholesome fitness and fun. It's the many comments from women who have said they aren't good at, don't like, or don't feel comfortable partaking in other forms of physical exercise. I'm actually more interested in why so many women feel that they can't/shouldn't/don't like sports or other physical activities.

I have two friends working in different settings with girls to try and encourage them towards healthy life choices, particularly related to sport and physical activity. You get the handful of girls who are really into sport and fitness. Mostly though, they face an uphill battle trying to engage young women in physical activity.

Some say other boys and girls will think they are Lesbians if they do sport. Some aren't happy with how their bodies look and feel uncomfortable being watched doing physical activity (some even being afraid of being teased or harassed, particularly by boys.) Some don't think having muscles, sweating, not looking your best aren't things girls should do. Some say boys don't like girls who are jocks or their family don't want them doing things that "aren't ladylike."

This thread just made me think of conversations with these two friends, of how hard it is to try and make physical activity appeal to young women, but within a context where girls and young women are conditioned to believe that they shouldn't do anything that might compromise their all important attractiveness and appeal to males?

So, might the appeal of pole dancing as physical fitness be because it has the trappings and social connotations that conform to traditional expectations that women be sexually appealing for men AND so is a permissible form of physical activity for women?

AnyFucker · 20/11/2012 00:23

oh, kritiq, why can't I say it like you say it ?

maybe one day, when I am all growed up...

FairPhyllis · 20/11/2012 04:23

Yup. If pole classes are really about fitness and gymnastic ability, then why do women choose a pole class over, say, gymnastics? And why are pole classes being made more accessible to women than gymnastics?

I see that in a number of cases here the line between exercise and performance is getting blurred.

As for the thing about heels, the only other form of exercise which requires heels is dancesport, which also has the performance element, and ultimately has its origins in a form of sexual display.

HeffalumpsAndWoozles · 20/11/2012 06:19

Pole is gymnastics, albeit with a prop. Look at some of the videos already linked up thread, Bendy Kate for example. It is often learnt in conjunction with the hoop or aerial silks and shares many similarities with these yet nobody minds when the prop for the same move is a ribbon of silk.

The use of heels can be helpful, although it comes down to personal preference in the end. And really, even if that preference is based on someone wanting to dance for fun and to feel 'sexy' I just don't see the problem. Why shouldn't they, is it not ok for women to want to feel sexy or attractive?

I haven't had to rationalise my choice to take up pole, I saw an advert in my gym and thought it looked like fun. Something different to the monotony of a gym workout or a standard fitness class. I tried it, liked it, got a bit addicted and ultimately I am a fitter, healthier and happier woman for it.

TheHumancatapult · 20/11/2012 06:24

Kim

That is terrible what happened but it sadly is one of the things ( I fell backwards from standing position ended up paralysed . So yeah maybe risks involved but is in every day life

TheHumancatapult · 20/11/2012 06:28

Oh and my fall was nothing to Do with a pole just unlucky stumble

Heffalump

I'm quite happy to admit it looks like fun and once upon a time I been so up for it . Slightly impossible now Wink

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/11/2012 07:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeerTricksPott3r · 20/11/2012 07:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FellatioNelson · 20/11/2012 07:50

Isn't Burlesque a bit old hat now? Confused

Like cupcakes. Has had its day.

FellatioNelson · 20/11/2012 07:52

Well I would agree with you Stewie but that would have to rule out ballet as well. Wink Those blocks are bastards.

And Darcy Bussell had a hip replacement in her early thirties. Shock So much for 'fitness'.

rosabud · 20/11/2012 07:56

Agree with everything you said, Kritiq, so well put. The other point I noticed upthread was that someone has had a couple of professional photos taken of themselves pole dancing (or pole-acrobatting or pole-fitting or whatever it's called) just so they can look back when they're older and see how fit they were. Has anyone had any professional photos taken of themselves swimming/ running/ doing zuma/ playing football etc for the same reasons?

alexpolismum · 20/11/2012 08:25

I thought for a moment I had wondered into a parallel universe while reading this thread, one where feminism meant something else.

Then I saw Kritiq's post and SGM's comments and the world fell back into place.

All these people who think they exist in a vacuum completely separate from other people, where their choices affect no one else...

namechangeguy · 20/11/2012 09:00

That is an interesting post Kritiq. This problem of girls losing interest in sport is a big one for society, especially in terms of long-term health and fitness. Sport is a huge passion of mine, and one I have tried to pass on to my kids.

One thing I have noticed from our family's involvement in sport is the split between team and individual sports between genders. I am a competitive swimmer, and our club has about 150 swimmers of all ages, from around 8 years old to retirees. I would estimate that over fifty per cent of members are female. My wife was in a running club, where at least half of members were female. Have your friends ever mentioned a split between girls who take parts in team sports, versus individual events? Are girls channelled away from team sports for some reason?

And on a separate note, I simply don't understand the mentality of girls/women who think that men find fit, toned, strong bodies unattractive. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Slumberparty · 20/11/2012 09:01

There is a quote in 'Crazy, Stupid, Love' (shit film) where male character Jacob says "The war between the sexes is over. We won the second women started doing pole dancing for exercise"
That about sums it up.

OneMoreChap · 20/11/2012 09:17

rosabud
Has anyone had any professional photos taken of themselves swimming/ running/ doing zuma/ playing football etc for the same reasons?

... raises hand. Staged photos exist of me diving over a try line nigh on 40 years ago.

[Incidentally, never seen pole dancing IRL, and no desire to; do suspect it's part of mainstreaming sexualisation - see WAG in training clothes for kids, fashion magazines etc. So, yes - a bit tawdry]

Interested in choice feminism though.

I like the concept that choice can't be free because of the patriarchy... so who decides when choice can be free - and how will we know?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 20/11/2012 09:27

I dont know anyone who takes pole classes to look wild and giggle all the way through it. it's a seriously hard sport and you have to be dedicated once you get to the advanced stage.

Yes I have had two professional pole shoots done now and I love them and yes, if I wanted them done for another hobby and it was something I would like to record for my future then yes, I would have it done.......what is the problem with that??

Like I keep saying, it's pole fitness not pole dancing...the two are totally different.

A WAG in training clothes???? Seriously, we do not look like WAGS!

AlanMoore · 20/11/2012 09:38

I'm heartened to see that I'm not silly for not doing it even though I enjoyed it because it compromises my principles.

AlanMoore · 20/11/2012 09:43

Sorry, that makes me sound a right dick. I KNOW I'm not being daft but it's nice to know there are quite a few people who agree and I am v grateful to posters who have written about choices not being made in a vacuum.

rosabud · 20/11/2012 10:28

^rosabud
Has anyone had any professional photos taken of themselves swimming/ running/ doing zuma/ playing football etc for the same reasons?

... raises hand. Staged photos exist of me diving over a try line nigh on 40 years ago.^

Ok, let me rephrase that. Have any women had professional photographs taken of themselves swimming/running/doing zumba/ playing rugby etc for the same reasons as given above (ie to be able to look back in years to come and see how fit they were) because, with all due respect, Onechap, I think men showing off their fitness is more mainstream than women showing off their fitness and my point was more aimed at showing that photos of yourself pole-dancing (or pole-fitting or whatever) may suggest that there is a level of performance or looking sexual in it.

Also there are lots of comments about "I would never pole-dance in fromt of men it's only for exercise" or "I have only pole-danced as performance for my husband." Does anyone feel they would never swim/run/do zumba/play rugby in front of a man? Has anyone ever swum. run, done zumba/ played rugby privately for the benefit of their husband only? Are there any sports which men would "never do in front of a woman" or "only do privately for my wife" ?? I doubt it, which does rather put pole-fitting in a league of its own. So all those who CHOOSE to do it, that's your CHOICE but don't pretend it's a perfectly average sport that is all about exercise and has no other connotations.

drjohnsonscat · 20/11/2012 10:37

It's a load of demeaning crap. Honestly it amazes me that we sit back and take all this rubbish. Here's the key question - do men feel the need to do pole dancing classes for "fitness"? No. There's the answer right there. If you are not being constantly objectified by society the whole idea seems ridiculous. If you are used to thinking of yourself as little more than an sexual object then, yeah, great idea. How on earth did we let all this rubbish into our normal lives/gym classes/village halls?

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/11/2012 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WilsonFrickett · 20/11/2012 10:41

DrJohnson, according to the posters on thread who very much do 'fitness' rather than 'dancing', yes, there are men in their classes.

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