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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would anyone like to join in an effort to convince retailers to stop categorizing toys by gender?

999 replies

OneHandWavingFree · 19/11/2012 00:06

Following on from this thread and similar ones, a few of us are interested in discussing ways to send a message to retailers that it is not acceptable to designate 'boys' and 'girls' toy aisles which reinforce the message that science and adventure are "boys stuff", while girls should be primarily occupied with looking 'sexy' or practicing for domestic drudgery.

The first steps might be to draft a letter and identify a few retailers to target for an email campaign. Other ideas of how to get the message across are very welcome too, though.

Would anyone like to join in?

OP posts:
MurderOfGoths · 20/11/2012 18:17

"Back to the OPs desire for campaigning... this seems like an area where whoever it is in government who is supposed to be encouraging kids into STEM subjects should be taking an active interest."

That's a good idea! I know of one group campaigning for more women in tech who might be interested in getting behind this as well.

GrimmaTheNome · 20/11/2012 18:23

Annie - well you have to have girls and boys because you don't want the lads deciding they want ickle padded bras....oh wait....

AnnieLobeseder · 20/11/2012 18:24

But aside from shops, I'd like to see gender segregation taken out of schools too. Even from pre-school, children are split into a line of boys and a line of girls, lunch boxes go into a girls' tray and a boys' tray etc etc. It starts the whole "us and them" mentality so young. I'd like to see unisex school uniforms and no gender segregation beyond toilets allowed.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 20/11/2012 18:28

In.

They'll just tell you they are responding to customer demand for ease of shopping and choice, though, I bet.... Hmm

OneHandWavingFree · 20/11/2012 18:35

Rubyroo I get where you're coming from. I agree that we need to zero on in a specific, relatively easy 'ask' of retailers, and one which is unlikely to have a negative impact on their sales.

That's why the idea of eliminating "Boys" and "Girls" sections in shops and on websites is so appealing to me. It wouldn't solve the whole problem by a long shot, but it would make a real difference to one aspect of children's (and parents') experience of shopping for toys, right at the point of sale.

I would love to see a day when there are no children's toys that are about practicing how to be sexy, and where the colour pink is no more or less prevalent than any other colour. But I get what you're saying - there are deluded parents out there who think that stuff is harmless, or even that it's a good thing, and as long as that's the case, manufacturers will make it and retailers will sell it.

So I don't think it would be wise or effective at this point to ask retailers to stop stocking Bratz, or pink versions of classic toys, or My Little Cleaning Cart or whatever. They're not going to do that, not for as long as it's profitable to continue selling them.

Some of the websites like PinkStinks and Toward the Stars (love that one, by the way, 5mad - so glad you directed me to it) probably have the right approach on that issue: remind parents that there are alternatives and keep banging away at why the harmful stuff is harmful. Raise awareness and chip away at the problem from the consumer end of things.

What we can ask retailers to do, which they might actually go for, is to stock the same toys in a different way. The coded messages will still be there and the marketing on TV and everywhere else will still resonate with consumers: they will still "know" that the pink things must be for girls, the action toys must be for boys, etc.

But I think it would be a genuine, significant "win" not to have a big sign over each aisle proclaiming that kitchens and mirrors are "For Girls" and cars and soccer balls are "For Boys". It is so ridiculously overt the way it is now, that it comes across as an actual directive. "You are a girl and so you should like this, or else you are 'like a boy'", and vice-versa.

I'm repeating myself now, but I think there's very little risk of sales losses by just stocking the shelves differently, and there's a potential for an increase if children and parents / adult aren't put off considering particular toys because they're in the "wrong" aisle for the gender they're buying for.

We know that some retailers have started to categorize by toy type rather than gender; I think someone said that Smyths now has "Fashion and Dolls" and "Construction and Vehichles" aisles. I wonder if we could get some information as to how the change has impacted their sales? If there's been no change in sales figures, or even a change for the better, surely that would be useful information in trying to make the case to retailers that are still stocking shelves by presumed gender-driven interest.

So... Who is getting it right? How do we get our hands on their sales figures? Are those figures publicly available?

OP posts:
babylann · 20/11/2012 18:52

Skipped ahead from page 5 so don't know how relevant this post is now but I would suggest the first two stages of action be:

  1. Make a facebook page
  2. Start a petition

That way we have two clear pieces of evidence to show to retailers that there's more than just a small handful of parents with these views. If we can get the number to 1000 or so, that'd be a good starting point.

MurderOfGoths · 20/11/2012 19:37

Little Miss Geek Another campaign to align with.

Himalaya · 20/11/2012 19:58

What companies often respond to, and what newspapers love is a ranking. I.e. a top ten, from most to least sexist toy retailer.

To do this you need a set of criteria.

E.g

Boys and girls aisles in store -2 points
Boys and girls pages in catalogue -2 points
Boys and girls as major categories on website -2 points
Implicit but unlabelled boys and girls aisles -1point
Implicit but unlabelled boys and girls pages in catalogue -1 point
Boy, girl as minor search terms on web -1 point
Etc....

So they get a numerical score. No one wants to come last Grin

MurderOfGoths · 20/11/2012 20:19

That's an idea himalaya!

Thisisaeuphemism · 20/11/2012 20:22

I'm in - some great ideas here.
One store that does layout their kids section in a gender neutral way is (Stasi favourite) Ikea.

LeeCoakley · 20/11/2012 20:32

I'm really disappointed to hear that ELC are among the culprits. 20 years ago when my dds were young there was no gender stereotyping and no pink stuff as far as I can remember. Everything was cheery red, yellow, blue or green.

I emailed them 2 years ago when their website detailed 'girls'' and 'boys'' dressing-up chests and to their credit they changed it immediately. It sounds like they have forgotten Sad

PigeonStreet · 20/11/2012 20:40

I agree totally with what has been said so far. It makes me so angry how limiting toy shops are for kids who think they have to prescribe to the pink or blue sections. Count me in.

Thisisaeuphemism · 20/11/2012 20:46

I like Himalayas idea.

I suppose photo contrasts would be helpful too: what kids play with when they can play with anything versus what they play with when it is limited by labels.

ConsiderCasey · 20/11/2012 21:00

How about this weekend (or whenever we can) we each choose a chain-store shop near us and go through Himilaya's critieria. We could also take pictures of the offending shop aisles and toys (to show the ridiculous segregation) to upload to our lovely new Facebook page?

GrimmaTheNome · 20/11/2012 21:12

Goths - 'Little Miss Geek' is such a cringingly awful name though.

LadyKinbote · 20/11/2012 21:22

Great idea Consider. I'm going to Bluewater this weekend so could do Boots / John Lewis / House of Fraser / Mothercare / ELC / M&S. One of them, not all! (Or security might be having a word with me...)

babamummy · 20/11/2012 21:28

Great thread.

Was in Sainsburys this morning. Aisle with playmobil had boys sign above it.

Himalaya · 20/11/2012 21:32

Have we got a facebook page yet?

The ranking criteria are only draft - might need a bit of editing and work - anybody want to add any other criteria? - they need to be clear and easy to assess with a straight yes/no answer.

Maybe one about dressing up clothes - are they all/nearly all gendered or are there unisex outfits for doctors, nurses, chefs, firefighters etc...? Not sure if this is clear enough a question, though?

I would be happy to set up a surveymonkey to collect the data for this before the weekend, if we can agree on criteria - then you can all go out and do mystery shopping ! Grin

LadyKinbote · 20/11/2012 21:47

SurveyMonkey would be great. No real suggestions on criteria but I think we need to keep it focused on labelled aisles and make sure we don't get sidetracked. Maybe a couple of specific questions along the lines of "how many items in each aisle relating to science / maths?" "how many items relating to role play in a home setting?" etc

GrimmaTheNome · 20/11/2012 21:55

The numerical score idea doesn't quite work because different retailers have different combos of store/catalog/web.

ConsiderCasey · 20/11/2012 22:10

I've always wanted to be a mystery shopper!

Yea to the surveymonkey idea Himilaya! I agree with LadyK, to focus also on the types of toys that are marketed to boys and girls because that's the bit that limits kids - gearing boys to science/ construction / action whilst girls to home-making / child-rearing / caring about appearances.

One question though, as we're being covert mystery shoppers do we have to wear dark glasses and fake moustaches? Grin

LurcioLovesFrankie · 20/11/2012 22:11

In addition to the +2 (misogyny) points for separate girls and boys sections on a website, could we have, say, +5 for searches like the one mentioned up thread where searching on "science, boys" produced 10 hits and searching on "science, girls" came up with 2 (of the "chemistry: it's good for making perfumes" variety).

Hamnvik · 20/11/2012 22:21

Just marking place, I'm definitely in!

OneHandWavingFree · 20/11/2012 22:35

I like the mystery shopping / reconnaissance mission idea... WIBU Wink to collect info on UK outlets in Ireland? I know the vast majority of you are in the UK so of course the focus needs to be on retailers based there, but do you think it would be okay to include pics from Debenhams, Boots, Tesco in Dublin or Galway?

Would that demonstrate a broader base of support for changing things, or would it dilute the message?

OP posts:
PeggyCarter · 20/11/2012 22:36

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