Would anyone like to join in an effort to convince retailers to stop categorizing toys by gender?

[OneHandWavingFree]

Following on from this thread and similar ones, a few of us are interested in discussing ways to send a message to retailers that it is not acceptable to designate 'boys' and 'girls' toy aisles which reinforce the message that science and adventure are "boys stuff", while girls should be primarily occupied with looking 'sexy' or practicing for domestic drudgery.

The first steps might be to draft a letter and identify a few retailers to target for an email campaign. Other ideas of how to get the message across are very welcome too, though.

Would anyone like to join in?

Thanks nickel and trisha ! We do want the twitter account to be prominent on the page, but maybe just not there getting older by the minute and looking like our most recent update! Is there a way to put it into one of those little boxes (near the photos and likes)?

Here's a link to the thread in Chat - the 'official' thread to try and draw in more MNers. Can we try to bump it into active at least a few times a day?

No word from MNHQ, as far as I'm aware. I think that Mushroom reported the thread yesterday and asked for their input / advice.

Is it because we're not in 'campaigns'? Have I we committed a faux pas by starting this thread (or the other one) in the wrong place? Do others want to report too, and ask if they can come onto the thread for a chat?

Tweets - need to be careful to bombard people with them. Following people - I think it best to follow people who are similar to us and/or tweet regualrly on same subject. You need to be able to read your own feed and have interesting stuff come up to retweet, if you just follow everyone then you miss loads, although you could do lists I suppose. Some people do follow everyone back, others just a select few, we'll find our way, not terribly worried about it. But do think we need to respond to interactions and RT people.

Idea for twitter campaign/attempt to get #lettoysbetoys trending - organise a time when a few of us will be online. LTBT ask followers a question, such as 'tweet us your reasons for thinking retailers/toymakers should #lettoysbetoys ? - users tweet answers to LTBT using the hashtag, retweet each other, hope it snowballs??

oops I meant not bombard people with tweets, important difference

Just checking in for twitter duty! Had to watch Strictly first...

Right, have got and choccy, a list of all the tweeting/FB suggestions onboard and my typing fingers at the ready....

Other questions to ask on Twitter - who are the best retailers? The worst? What toys does your child play with from the 'wrong' aisle? I also thought some (male) chefs may be interested to hear about retailers who think cooking is for girls!

"that can't be right : @thebookseller has 2100"

A ha, apparently it's a ratio thing!

I knew my partner got to 2000 and they stopped him there. (He has about 500 followers). Actually it seems if you have more followers then you can follow more people. (They've upped his limit to 2001 now apparently, wohoo!)

"Is it because we're not in 'campaigns'? Have I we committed a faux pas by starting this thread (or the other one) in the wrong place? Do others want to report too, and ask if they can come onto the thread for a chat?"

I've posted [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/1625317-MNHQ-How-can-we-make-our-campaign-an-official-Mumsnet-Campaign an invite[[ for MNHQ in campaigns.

I don't think we've committed a faux pas by not posting there originally, as that bit's for official campaigns, isn't it?

Let me try that again!

I've posted an invite for MNHQ in campaigns.

That Smyths web search algorithm makes sense to me. It's both disappointing and an opportunity. What it means is that people have searched for things for boys and girls and the IT has learned from what they end up buying. So to start with, people searched for 'girls toy kitchens' and 'girls art kits' and the store had things called toy kitchens and art kits. it didn't start with girls in the description, but the algorithm learned that people associate those with girls, so now responds to the search term 'girls' by suggesting kitchens and art kits.

Now, all we have to do is whenever buying a toy that you know is currently falling on one side of the gender divide, put in the other gender as a search term. E.g. You are getting a scalextric set for someone, you search 'scalextric girls' and you'll get scalextric because it will probably just ignore what it sees as an irrelevant word. You buy, it learns that at least someone wants scalextric for girls. You do the same with every gendered toy and it loosens the associations. And it might also affect the second order associations ("people who bought scalextric also like meccano") eventually.

Someone proper clever could even write this into an automated search engine optimisation script that could game the shop sites and also search engines (because the big shops keep an eye on what you were looking for on google when you came through to their site).

I reported the LTBT thread and asked for it to be featured in Discussions of the Day. Not heard a peep back.

Does seem odd they haven't responded at all.

Can I suggest that when we reach 1000 posts on this thread that we started the new one in Campaigns? We might get noticed by MNHQ a little more.

that we start the new thread there (not started!)

Good idea ashes its my thought that they know we're here...have seen the invitations to come on thread...but that they''re in talks. They're very careful about their image....they want to be seen as pro feminist but not TOO pro feminist.

They're also afraid of damaging their relationships with their big advertisers....after all...if MN earn x amount from retailers of toys...and they happen to be on our "hit list" then MN could end up losing money.

That's possibly why they're taking so long.

Be interesting to have a quick check on the advertisers on MN right now...to see if they''re among the worst offenders or not.

INteresting! I put "Toys" into the search box at top right of screen on MN. Various paid for links came up....immediately on the MN page were two subtitles

Toys for girls

Toys for boys

And when I went on two toy sites who are obviously paying for such prominent places on here...they BOTH had separate girls and boys sections.

I'm sure mumsnet will get back to us. I expect they're considering their response.

www.thebrilliantgiftshop.co.uk and www.alexandalexa.co.uk

They're the sites I just saw advertised on MN when I put Toys into the search box

Yes....I'm sure they are aufaniae. It's not an easy thing....they have to balance I know.

MrsMushroom they're not mumsnet advertisers, mumsnet have no control at all over those ads AFAIK.

The mumsnet search is powered by Google. The paid-for ads at the top are Google Ads, exactly the same as you get in a google search.

Please can we wait to hear from mumsnet before getting into guessing what they think about the subject?

I'd love to work with them on this (assuming it suits both us and them) let's be nice?!

I see it says "Powered by Google" and the amount of results thrown up show Google's might...but then why does it say

"Mumsnet - Search for advice, by parents for parents

Here you can search through Mumsnet's wealth of advice for parents, by parents. We've got product reviews, advice on conception, pregnancy, babies, toddlers and more, plus discussions, recipes, competitions..."

Above it all?

Either way...very confusing. I agree that it's best to remain patient but still feel that a word from someone to acknowledge that they have been made aware of our request might have been nice too.

Yes, we'll be nice, of course.

If they don't want to do it that's their prerogative, of course, and we'll understand.

But would be good just to know they're aware of it.

It's a service which Google offer to websites: websites can use their search for free (I assume) as long as they're happy to tolerate the google ads on the top.

It's a money-maker for google of course, and a way for websites to get a decent search for free.

The pink bit at the top is paid-for ads (and it effectively costs the advertisers money every time you click on one).

It's the same when you use google search: the ads at the top (and on the side) are paid ads.

Off topic, but incidentally, did you know that if you use Gmail, Google reads your emails, and then targets you with ads (on Gmail, but also across the internet) based on the words you have used in emails you've written?

Creepy!

When DP and I were trying to come up with names for DS, DP was away and we were having baby naming discussions by email.

I got an ad at the side of gmail saying "Buy cheap baby names!"

Think something went a bit wrong with their automated ad generator!
(No idea what they were really advertising, as I didn't click on it, but I have a screen shot of it somewhere!)