Misconceptions of Feminism

[FrothyDragon]

So, following on from the NetMums survey, I started thinking about common misconceptions of feminism.

I'm still relatively new to feminism (Have only identified as a feminist for three years.) But I was just wondering: What misconceptions have you heard about Feminism? Can we bust a few feminist myths here?

A classic for me was being told, in the middle of a meeting for forming a group aimed at providing women with a women only meeting space: "Well, we didn't want to be seen as feminists last time we ran the group... Y'know, man-hating bra burning lesbians". Sadly, I was too shocked to reply succinctly at the time.

Sorry for the late response, I'm in the US! I'm also not an economist or a radfem, so if my points are not clear, I apologize!

If you think that only whites or men should be in positions of power,or have economic success or that if they are not, they won't have anything to do, it's a zero-sum game. But they do have lots of other options open to them.

There is plenty of room for others to have economic success, it doesn't have to be gathered in one group or one corporation. For instance, monopolies in economic areas actually reduce the available options for everyone and put all capital in once place. However, if there are other companies doing offering similar services/products, there will still be room for profits. Look at the fast food industry, it hasn't hurt McDonalds to have competitors.

Companies with diversity on their boards usually have greater income than similar companies without. ?Research has shown that diverse teams produce better results. In particular, Catalyst research revealed that more diverse boards, on average, are linked with better financial performance. Corporate America has the opportunity to seize the advantage that a more diverse board can yield in this increasingly competitive global economy.? From the Alliance for Board Diversity, May 2011.
So actually, instead of a zero sum game, there's more to be had out there and white corporations are using it!

Feminism(in my mind) doesn't have anything to say about childcare, why can't a woman choose to care for her kids? Why can't she choose to have someone else do that? Why can't she have a career where she makes enough to support her husband while he stays home? (this to me is the feminist issue, she stays home because he can make more, not because she is the "natural" carer)

It's when the economy slides that people get protectionist/racist/mysogynist (as is happening here in the US) because the pot does get smaller for everyone. But that would be happening even without equality. In the US the first jobs to fall to this recession were professional white collar jobs. (which isn't what usually happens) so with those guys still out of work, you can bet there's moaning about anyone else competing with them.

summerflower - same experience here! i'm doing a phd with a toddler in 2 and feel like I am constantly battling. For me feminism is not a case of being 'as good as' a man, its about changing our society so men and women have equal rights (to pay for example) and equal responsibilities (to childcare say). Then no-one can be discriminated against due to gender. Also I hate it when women say, 'I'm not a feminist but...'

The anti-SAHM, expect women to all be more like men and work myth bugs me. I'm a SAHM, and a feminist and I don't want all women to be 'more like men'.

WidowWadman
The main misconception is that there's only one school of feminism.

That.

Feminism is bewildering in its diversity, and I can think of men-hating feminists; hairy-legged feminists; lesbian feminists; feminists who love cats... and feminists who are the opposite of each of those.

Another misconception and one I think does a lot of harm is "Feminists are humorless". I'm sure some are, but most aren't miserable funhating killjoys. Any more than non-feminists.

Still, I'm not a feminist, what would I know

MMMarmite
How about childcare ... - doesn't feminism just mean that someone else has to do it instead?

About non zero sum... childcare was something I fought to do, so I'd be closer to my kids... which means that when I divorced, and as they grew up I had a much closer relationship with my children - don't see how it harmed XW? So surely that's non zero sum?

Slight tangent: The hairy-legged thing

I've not shaved my legs in a while - am too pregnant to do it comfortably, and really can't be arsed.

Am I therefore more feminist, the more pregnant I get?

Am I more feminist during winter months, when I don't wear skirts?

[hgrin]

I don't think so but the idea that there was a leg-hair-length-matrix of feministyness made me giggle.

Sorry, I clearly haven't got my funhating feminist hat on today, I keep laughing at silly things!

I rather enjoy a feminist blog with the subtitle "It's not a zero sum game" - and that's how I think about feminism.

Me getting the right to an abortion doesn't mean you lose the right to anything.

Me getting the right to walk down the street in peace doesn't mean you lose anything.

Me getting the same money for doing the same job as you - doesn't mean you lose anything.

increasing the amount of feminism in the world increasing the general human happiness - male and female.

The "humourless" thing though is applied to women in general

Apparently we're not very funny. All of us

We need great funny men like Jim Davidson or the like to show us the way

I think the 'humourless' thing is a silencing techmique - usually used when a women is objecting to something something someone has said. If you have the audacity to pick a man up on a comment you're told it was just a joke and are labelled oversensitive and humourless.

yes but I would object to the comment ab ove that women who work are "more like men", that it is a man's thing to want money, power, have ambition, be the best on the plant at what you do, to delight in competing. To suggest that we women who are like that are "like men" is very very sexist. We need to be able to say that is about being a certain kind of human b eing and not be insulted by housewives on the thread sayign we are "like a man" if we work.

Men make out housework is women's higher calling when we all know it'#s as dull as ditchwater and the madonna suggestion of wife at home as the pure ideal woman is just a conspiracy to keep women down, women conned by their men and upbringing into thinking they are doing somethin gnoble and wonderful every time they are scrubbing that toilet or getting his shirts out for tomorrow. They aren't. They are being kept down and it is much much more fun to do interseting high paid work whilst also having a family which men have known for generations.

We need great funny men like Jim Davidson or the like to show us the way

surely the only person who thinks that though is Jim Davidson.:o

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but there are a lot of high profile female comedians ? I'm sure they face challenges men don't but anyone who thinks women aren't funny can't have spent much time around women.

I think it's becoming a commmon misconception that feminism isn't needed anymore.

It isn't that women aren't funny. The problem is we don't get the chance to be funny publicly

well I appreciate it's harder for female comedians but there are plenty of high profile female comedians.

Dawn French, Saunders, Tina Faye, Joan Rivers, etc.

And on a day to day I personally don't see women being any less or more funny than men. Maybe it's the circles one moves in, but I don't really see women not being allowed to be funny.

I'd guess it , in the thread context, has more to do with people being v serious about their ideas and ideology

Those comedy panel shows almost always have a majority of men though. The single woman is outnumbered, and men tend to talk over and interrupt women. The woman is under more pressure to be good because if one of the men is a bit rubbish then people don't assume that no men are funny.

Also thanks for all the explanations monsterchild! Sorry I didn't come back to this thread for so long.

Agree mmm, I think the f-word used to post the balance every week on twitter for such shows.

I liked the Canadian-Irish woman on Mock The Week the other day.

That looking after children is not a career option.

Looking after children as a career option is a device to keep women chained to sinks. The suggestion cleaning and child care is hallowed and worthy is a con perpetuated by sexist women and men. They are saying wow whoat a lovely interest job doing that washing, aren't you lucky with thie higher unpaid calling that is so worthy. Don't listen to them. That is a load of rubbish. If the husband thinks cleaning and childcare is so great throw him the mop and skip out to the board room which is heaps more fun.

I think looking after children as a career option is perfectly fine, as far as it's a career which is based on training and education and gets paid.

I certainly don't look down on the nursery staff which does a great job at looking after my children while I'm at work.

TBH I've no problem with parents (note, parents, not women) staying at home while the other works, if they can afford it and both are happy with the solution, as long as they don't use stupid pseudo-jobtitles and refer to themselves as "family managers".

Nothing wrong with being an SAHP, but it's not a career.

"Women chained to the sinks" is so 70s Xenia - I think we have moved on as women. Interesting that Hillary Devey from Dragon's Den said there was no glass ceiling when it came to women in the boardroom but she is the only member of her boardroom (she has one child).

Widow: How lovely of you to not look down on nursery staff who take your money, monthly, because for them it is a career option.

Nursery staff, or being a parent who stays at home to look after the children. What's the difference? I bet you pay quite a lot on nursery fees regardless of your work hours.

Yes, I do pay quite a lot of money on nursery fees.

What makes paid work in a professional childcare setting a career opposed to just staying at home and look after your own sprogs is that for the former you need training and qualifications, for the latter you don't.

Last few posts here make me really cross. One again 'feminism' just show why iy should not be taken seriously by any one.
Why can't we all just live and let live?
If someone wants to stay home with the kids, fie, if they want to make it to the top career wise then that's fine to.
The problem we have throughout society is when individuals think they are 'better' than the next person. No one is better than anyone else.
I'm sure that when we are on our death beds we won't be looking back wishing we could have clinched a few more deals, we'll be more likely thinking of those we have loved and how we'd perhaps give anything to have a bit more time with them.

How can 'feminism' be taken seriously when the it is so diverse?
Can it make any valid general points to society when 'feminists' contradict each other?
It sometimes appears fighting for equality while giving women equal opportunity, which to some extent I feel we have acheived in the UK, then takes away some of our 'privilege's as we're too busy wanting to be equal rather then playing to our strengths.
Let's face it women can do everything a man can do, plus carry a child, Feminism seems to ignore this fact and flip it round so it's a negative on women.
Maybe men have acheived the position they have by playing to their strengths. As women have the sole ability to continue the human race you'd think this would be the bigger deal.