Am I the only Women who doesn't like to see a Women Doctor?

[MiniTheMinx]

I have been thinking about this for some time. I have often read that women like to see women doctors and of course for some this is tied in with religion and culture, for others maybe a history of abuse or a reasonable expectation that only a women would really understand the inner workings of women, whether it be gynea or even emotional/psychological problems.

However I have to date always had problems with women doctors.

I have come to the conclusion that some women who lack power, authority or autonomy under male domination seek to impose authority over other women. From my experience this happens when there is a perceived weakness such as illness.

I wondered if women really do empower themselves by oppressing other women because they feel so helpless themselves?

I always choose a female gynae if I can, I think I feel more comfortable knowing that she has the same biology and knows what a speculum stuck inside you feels like. When I was pregnant, I loved the fact that my gynae has had three children and knew to ask "how tired are you?" and "do you need a week off work to rest a bit?". Aside from gynae issues, I couldn't care less about the gender of my doctor/nurse and have definitely never experienced a doctor lording it over me.

I am not the first person to put forward the idea that oppressed groups misplace anger and seek power over those they make or perceive to be more vulnerable than themselves.

Has anyone read or even heard of Erving Goffman, his work on asylums/institutions and the hierarchical nature of the human relationships and social interactions within such spaces, was and still is an important study on how this works. In the 80's social scientists studied how hierarchy led to tyranny and abuse of power.

It isn't some sort of weird theory trotted out because I have little better to do. I am genuinely interested in how this happens in medicine and whether women are or they are not immune from this social phenomena. In what way are women acting in the interests of their oppressors and in what way do all women experience both power and vulnerability. I believe we are not completely without power and neither are we completely equal to men what ever our profession or education. This why I started to think about my own personal experience of medicine and women doctors.

I have worked in closed environments ( residential social work with young people) where I saw first hand what I describe as petty tyranny over those more vulnerable, always because staff felt disempowered, helpless and demoralised themselves. I have seen things I can not mention which really made me question the power relations between those who care and those they care for.

Is this a covert request for help with coursework? It sounds like one.

It does rather.

No I have studied it all before but I read too bloody much and think too much and really wanted to see what other peoples opinions and experiences are. I don't care if you quote research, authors and spout theories or just talk about how you/we experience medicine, especially in relation to whether women can have/do have more power over other women in some situations and what the outcome of that dialectic is. Simples......I don't have time for writing essays these day.

I said: the slightly callous, uncaring behaviour of certain doctors and healthcare workers I have seen has not been restricted to one gender.

Irrespective of whether people agree with the broad theory, how can one confidently say this is the dynamic at wok whenever they see a woman doctor they find unpleasant?

In my rare experiences of unsympathetic women doctors, I really could not confidently put their behaviour down to oppressed women oppressing other women or any other specific cause, not least because I just didn't know them, let alone their experiences of misogynist oppression.

I am sorry TheSmallClanger if you have had to deal with less than caring health professionals. I will admit I have met some worse than atrocious male doctors. (suing NHS because a male consultant missed SAH and my mother died after they gave her anticoagulants) the reason it was missed was because the doctor was hugely arrogant and wouldn't listen to two mere women, one the patient and one who tried to tell him how I found her and that I believed she was having a stroke not a heart attack)

So in terms of detrimental outcome, I would say Male Drs were more of a health hazard!

I would propose that the power imbalance between male doctors and female patients is far greater than btw two women what ever the relationship.

There have been several cases in the news where women have gone to male doctors for treatment and where the doctors have abused the patients trust. Some have started affairs with women who went for psychosexual counselling or psychiatric assessments.

maybe I don't mind men patronising me half as much as women because like all women I have been socialised into thinking that should there be any imbalance in power it is acceptable only between men and women. Ie men will always have the trump card.....so get used to it.

BTW OP sorry to come over the pedant but really, you ought to be able to distinguish between womAN (singular) and womEn (plural).

So in a nutshell if a female doctor is crap it's because she is exacting her revenge for having been oppressed. Whereas if a male doctor is crap it's because he's just ....well...crap.

I guess arrogance doesn't bother me. It just means I don't have to feel in the least worried if I sound forceful or rude back.

I feel the complete opposite of the OP - I avoid male doctors and was very distressed when I was in complications during labour with my son that the only doctor that night was male. My situation is different though as I was sexually assaulted over twenty years ago by a male GP. My female GP that I have now is wonderful - she is so easy to talk to and understands.

I used to be totally unfussed about who was treating me. Since becoming more aware of feminism, I now actively seek to be treated be women.

"Since becoming more aware of feminism, I now actively seek to be treated be women. "

So becoming aware of feminism made you sexist?

WW, it's not sexist for a woman to choose to be treated by a woman.

Sorry, Mini. I don't think women become doctors to oppress other women. Or would you say that my gay doctor became a doctor to oppress other gays?

BTW, I choose to have a female doctor where possible, as I feel less likely to get written off as an "over-anxious mother" on issues relating to my son (genuine reference from a doctor when I took him to A & E after throwing up formula milk). Nor do I find myself forgotten if a female doctor knows about my own health issues; definitely found myself forgotten when I had a male doctor.

On top of that, requesting a female doctor can prove to a clinic that the demand for a female doctor is there, when it comes to recruiting. I'd much rather speak to a woman about a lump in my breast, or heavier than usual periods...

I neither avoid nor seek out male or female doctors. For GPs I tend to prefer ones who have most recently finished their training, for specialists, if I have much choice, ones with the best statistical record for patients resembling me (not always easy to find). My experience has been of patronising and poor treatment, and engaging and great treatment by doctors of both sexes.

I don't discount the theory that members of oppressed groups can look for vulnerable people to oppress in order to give themselves a feeling of control and empowerment. But I don't see why women would particularly target the medical profession as doctors. Surely social work and even motherhood are just as good in terms of giving access to power over vulnerable people and much more accessible?

Nor, just because some women might do this, do I see why it would necessarily be a significant number given the high standing doctors general command.

I suspect that there have been studies that look at doctors' bedside manner and compare patient satisfaction rates for male and female doctors (as well as other classes). Maybe someone with access to academic journals could run a search?

I am more comfortable dealing with another woman. And, as Frothy said, if more women ask to be treated by women, more women get hired. Direct action.

The medical establishment's attitude towards women has caused huge amounts of suffering for women. Drugs not tested on women so their pesky hormones can't mess up the results, hysterectomies performed at the drop of the hat without alternatives. Women told how they should be giving birth. Even now, how many drugs are developed aimed at treating issues that are solely experienced by women? Companies sunk billions into treating male sexual dysfunction. How much is channeled into investigating female libido?

I lost my daughter to cancer.

I guess my perspective is different, because I'd rather anything than leave my two surviving children with no mother due to gender preference. I had LEETZ treatment for abnormal cervical cells in 2001 and am now on 3-yearly smears. I wouldn't have cared if a competent martian were doing it, I didn't want to die of cervical cancer.

I just want the best person for the job. If they are not I will soon suss it out and get whoever is best for the job gone no matter if they are half-monkey or half-ape. And feminism and principles just don't play into it when you have cancer, IME.

You want it gone, gone, gone.

I don't see it as a feminist issue but a human issue, and I'm friends with a great many doctors of both genders, they're mostly there to do a job and help people.

I don't see medicine as a gender issue anymore, particularly when it comes to cancer. If I see a human being whom I feel is not acting best he or she can, for whatever reason I've determined, then I'll do my best to change doctors.

But honestly, what is worth your life or the life of those you love?

I can assure you, it's who the person is, not their gender.

I hope you never have to find this out in real life.

I think for me the only thing about some women doctors is that can be more dismissive of feminine issues. I've had female doctors say to me, "I've had bad morning sickness and still worked, you'll be fine" (I was hospitalised a week later)

This isn't to say only women do this though, it's just the male doctors can't say it about period pain etc. I have had a male doctor tell me about his back pain though.

Essentially I find it's just best to avoid any doctor who
a) has been through something similar but less serious
b) likes to show off how martyred they are

Gender is only an issue when it comes to what they are physically capable of experiencing. Everything else is just individual personality flaws traits

donnie, thanks for all of your last post

Mini, I think I understand what you're saying and with some shame, admit that I may be guilty of acting like this at times. I'm not a doctor but work in a predominantly male industry.

I do find that it can be difficult to deviate from the standard male boss style of management and have to remind myself that it simply isn't my way of doing things. Women clients quite often express relief that they're seeing a women and I used to find that bolstering me and caused me to be a bit more sympathetic. Over time it gets harder to maintain that particularly when I'm under pressure from male partners to be more productive and less interested in the person behind the problem. The reality of my work means it is easier to put the emotion away and work on the actual problem. For a while, my heart sank when I saw my next client was a weeping woman as I knew that my partners would be thinking that I'd be off for another marathon counselling session and trying to fix all her problems. I suspect that on the occasions when I've gotten it badly wrong that I've been judged more harshly by those women simply because I am a woman and they expect me to have more empathy and compassion than a man.

I can see that there was a period where it was easier to fit in with the prevailing culture and copy that management style but feminism helped me see that I was letting everyone down with that approach. I still have to battle the corporate culture imposed by my partners who are all male but I also struggle with the attitude of female clients who expect a certain approach just because I'm female. Now I try to stick with what I'm comfortable with - if a client needs time and a holistic approach, I'll do that and if they simply need a pragmatic solution, they'll get that. I make a real effort to ensure that I manage staff the way I'm comfortable with and not the way that the practice has determined for so many years. But, it remains a daily challenge and I don't always get it right. A lot of it is to do with the fact that the business has been stricter by men in a way that suited their style and for years I didn't realise how much that affected every little aspect of the business.

The good news is simply that I'm aware of it and in four years, my remaining partners are due to retire. It will be interesting to see how this affects me and how I do business - in a way, I feel like I'll be set free. I genuinely don't know if that's a feminist perspective, a capitalist one or just arrogance. I certainly know that I still battle to put feminist principles in place in real life and hate that I contribute to it.

Rambling now........

Sorry the point to that post was, do I oppress women and the answer is that I don't deliberately but have done so in the past. The results were more respect by male partners so it would have been easier to continue on that path. Thank fuck for feminism.

Frothy - why not? She said before she became aware of feminism the sex of the people who treated her didn't matter to her. Now she actively seeks out women doctors. I don't understand this.

I understand women seeking out female doctors due to previous trauma, or being ashamed etc, even though this is not something I feel myself. But going from not bothered at all to only want to be treated by women because of some kind of feminist awakening strikes me as really odd.

I didn't read Mini's OP as women want to go into medicine so they can oppress women, but that they tend to be unpleasant towards women once they are in positions.

I don't have a preference in general re doctors but I do prefer male gynecologists. Women gynecologists I have had experience with have been invariably quite brutal. This could be my luck - I have no intention of trying out more women gynecologists to find out.

Blistory thank you for that really honest post, food for thought.