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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I the only Women who doesn't like to see a Women Doctor?

110 replies

MiniTheMinx · 14/10/2012 21:44

I have been thinking about this for some time. I have often read that women like to see women doctors and of course for some this is tied in with religion and culture, for others maybe a history of abuse or a reasonable expectation that only a women would really understand the inner workings of women, whether it be gynea or even emotional/psychological problems.

However I have to date always had problems with women doctors.

I have come to the conclusion that some women who lack power, authority or autonomy under male domination seek to impose authority over other women. From my experience this happens when there is a perceived weakness such as illness.

I wondered if women really do empower themselves by oppressing other women because they feel so helpless themselves?

OP posts:
YoullLaughAboutItOneDay · 14/10/2012 22:50

Oh. I clicked on this thinking 'me', but I totally misunderstood what you were going to say. Lots of my friends actively request a female doctor, even for quite 'non personal' things. I don't give a stuff either way really. I thought you meant 'am I the only one who doesn't mind'.

Ummofumbridge · 14/10/2012 22:51

I prefer a female doctor for female problems and examinations, however if none are available then I've had male doctors but for some reason I don't feel quite so comfortable.
I am probably completely off here but I always wonder what would motivate a man to go into obs & gynae. Im sure the majority are completely legitimately interested in women's bits but there are so many other options open to them...
I'll probably get flamed but it's a genuine query.

Anniegetyourgun · 14/10/2012 22:52

Erm, the only actual example you've given so far is of a receptionist who happens to work at a doctor's surgery. That's not exactly the same as a female doctor. Actually it's not even a little bit the same, unless a female doctor at the practice instructed the receptionist to prioritise male patients (which is slightly unlikely, I would have thought).

MiniTheMinx · 14/10/2012 22:53

No, I am trying to explore why some oppressed groups seek to oppress others and does gender oppression in some cases produce a phenomena where some within the oppressed group actually seek to align themselves with their oppressors. Heard of handmaidens? we see something similar with

sex positives championing porn or bleating on about how men feel.

We live in a complex social system which is hierarchical. Some women have power over other women. They have greater social prestige and earning power, education and opportunity. In what way does this effect relationships in terms of power between women not just over women?

OP posts:
HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 14/10/2012 22:58

I see your point with the handmaiden theory, but do truly believe the medical profession, whilst still very hierarchical is constrained by professionalism

Apart from the bad apples of both genders, of course

flippinada · 14/10/2012 23:01

I've been posting and/or lurking here for donkeys.

I understand the identifying/colluding with your oppressor theory.

Your theory sounds very peculiar and reads more like baseless prejudice against female doctors than anything else.

flippinada · 14/10/2012 23:05

There are many opportunities for women to be in a position of power over other women. Teachers, any kind of managerial role...

Why are you singling out female doctors?

MiniTheMinx · 14/10/2012 23:20

It is just one example and to be honest I have always worked with other women and when I worked for an employer all of my managers were women. I always found this a very supportive environment but it was social work so I think in general we were all more enlightened than perhaps other sectors. However it was always male managers who sought me out for promotion. I have never been offered promotion by any female line manager.

I use the example of female doctors because it is the only experience I have had where I have actually felt very disadvantaged due to the fact that I feel ill, I feel vulnerable, in fact perhaps the only time I have ever felt vulnerable is in illness and childbirth.

OP posts:
Iburntthecakes · 14/10/2012 23:21

I think there may be something in what you're saying op although I don't think its as much about going into medicine wanting to oppress other women as female doctors subconsciously fitting into a culture that is still very patriarchal. I dont think female doctors are any worse than their male counterparts though and of course you'll get good and bad male and female doctors.

Iburntthecakes · 14/10/2012 23:29

Ummofumbridge I think the fact there are so many male ob/gynaes is that surgery in general has more male consultants than female. Even though there are more women than men in medicine now, senior hospital jobs are still male dominated.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 15/10/2012 00:17

Mini it is possible that your father got an appointment quicker than you because of pre-assessment guidelines the receptionist follows eg the nature of the complaint, the age of the patient or previous health of the patient. Or maybe someone cancelled between your call and his!

I've never felt oppressed by any doctor and am happy to see either gender. I am sorry you've had some bad experiences. Did you feel it was only female HCPs who acted this way when you were ill/birthing?

BrittaPerry · 15/10/2012 00:23

Weirdly, I prefer a male doctor for 'female' issues, but am not bothered about in other areas (and in fact now have a lvely fmale GP who I am getting o know o wouldn't mind talkiking about periods or whatever with)

I think it is that I feel less embarrassed, because it feels more technical to talk about my vagina with someone who doesn't have one. Which is weird of me, I know.

Startailoforangeandgold · 15/10/2012 00:25

I have to say that if I think I'm being a bit neurotic and worrying myself silly I prefer a male Dr.

Not quite sure why, I guess I feel women are more judgemental.

Cervical smears etc. I don't care I'm very unbothered by that sort of thing.

Only ever had dealings with male consultants and never had any difficulty making them give straight answers to straight questions. Again I think I'd have felt more nervous of a woman.

Subconsciously I think, as a SAHM, I feel career woman look down on me and as a Biology graduate I don't feel men do.

Startailoforangeandgold · 15/10/2012 00:27

I ought to add our present female Dr. Is really good and I'd be happy to discuss anything with her.

BrittaPerry · 15/10/2012 00:28

I must say, I never got on with midwives, but that includes male ones. I just seemed to get the exact wrong combination of giggling about babies, cringy euphemisms and not seeming to listen about health issues.

BrittaPerry · 15/10/2012 00:29

I tend to prefer younger doctors of all genders though.

KRITIQ · 15/10/2012 00:31

I've had good, bad and in between doctors who were both male and female, and way back when I was a nurse, worked with doctors who also were varied in competence and communication skills but not always related to gender.

Senior doctors, particularly surgeons, tended to be more standoffish and arrogant, and also tended more often to be male. I found senior women surgeons were similar, but whether that was because they felt they were expected to behave like their male peers, or because when you get that far up the tree, you really DO think you're god, I don't know.

Personally speaking, I don't actually mind whether a doctor is male or female. I think I used to prefer women, but after being a nurse and seeing lots and lots of bodies of all shapes, sizes and types, I became far, far less self-conscious about my own body. I think as a result, I stopped worrying about any doctor seeing me in the buff or talking about personal medical things with them. I realised it genuinely wasn't a big deal for them, so why should it be for me?

chipmonkey · 15/10/2012 00:42

I actually tend not to care too much about the gender, colour or religion of my doctor. I am not even terribly bothered about personality. I like them to be competent, end of.
However, and this is entirely my own experience, I have encountered far more arrogant male doctors with a God-complex than I have female ones. And I used to attend a surgery where all the doctors were female and it was the most special surgery I ever attended. Every one of those women took a personal interest in their patients and often mopped up tears and gave out cups of tea as much as they prescribed medicine. I don't think you would ever get that from a group of male doctors.

MiniTheMinx · 15/10/2012 12:50

Yes I have considered that maybe there was a cancellation on this occasion but it certainly isn't the first time something like this has happened. The dentist, the garage, the painter........you name it. I sat beside my father when he rang up and he is assertive and confident, has a deep and rather patronising tone and speaks very well (RP) so I think maybe it isn't just women that capitulate, maybe he just gets better service because he is male. Thing is I'm well spoken, assertive and confident but I am not when I feel ill,I'm rather a pathetic heap when I am ill, which leads me to think that vulnerability acts as a beacon to those who would like more power over others.

I read years ago about some research into the standard of care in nursing homes. The researchers found that poor care often resulted from the demoralisation of the staff. If the staff were poorly trained, not supported, on low pay, working long hours in a dangerous and risky environment with few staff, the staff were more likely to abuse patients. Staff were not responsible for the culture of abuse but they perpetuated this culture for two reasons, seeking management approval (ie, how quickly can you feed/change/bath/meds people and how efficiently they worked) and empowering themselves through the more vulnerable position of their patients. They sought to demoralise those they looked after because they needed to perform their duties efficiently without disruption or antagonism from people capable of advocating for themselves.

This is what leads me to think that in some cases, the demoralised, the weak and the oppressed are indeed capable of exacting a sort of revenge driven by misplaced loyalty and anger on to others more vulnerable than themselves.

Midwifery has campaigned for years to be seen and accepted as something more than just some form of "quackery" the medical profession is deeply hierarchical and patriarchal and midwifery is seen as women making child birth a women's business and not a medical emergency. It has challenged the idea that child birth is the business of doctors, usually male and always better paid. So it would seem that working in an environment that is high risk, poorly staffed, stressful and indeed has to constantly reafirm it's place in the medical professions pecking order may actually give rise to a culture where some try to oppress others more vulnerable, just as in the example of nursing homes. I would also add that male obs are always happy to step in when called for help because they are perceived as "saving the day" this reaffirms Obstetricians as the real experts.

I have seen some excellent women doctors but on the whole I find men react more positively to vulnerability. So maybe men are socialised to both pray on the weaker but also to protect. A sort of super hero complex! I have on the whole been very happy with the standard of care received from male doctors but Midwives and nurses and younger women doctors.....well lets just say I now feel I might prefer to not have any treatment because of my experiences.

OP posts:
samandi · 15/10/2012 13:05

What a daft idea.

TheSmallClanger · 15/10/2012 13:14

I have come across arrogant and judgemental-seeming doctors of both genders. Thankfully, not very often.

Your theory about "reacting to vulnerability" makes me uncomfortable for reasons I don't fully understand. Plus, you aren't taking into account training, and the fact that doctors and other health professionals deal with vulnerable people day in day out, and often aren't especially sensitive to it.

EldritchCleavage · 15/10/2012 13:21

it was social work so I think in general we were all more enlightened than perhaps other sectors

I read this and remembered my 3-4 professional contacts with social workers and their departments, and everything my social worker friends have told me about their departments, then laughed like a loon. Both experiences suggest enlightenment is not high on the list of individual or collective qualities.

Then I remembered also not to extrapolate too far from my own not necessarily typical experience, and not to generalise about an entire profession, or at least one sex's representation in it.

theDudesmummy · 15/10/2012 13:21

This is a weird attitude OP. I am a woman doctor. In my current job I only treat male patients, although in my private practice I do assess (although don't treat) both males and females. I do not behave differently to males or females. I'm not in this to oppress anyone and I have never in my life felt disempowered (i suppose I am lucky in that, I have just never felt discriminated against or disempowered in any way, so have no power issues at work or elsewhere).

SarkyWench · 15/10/2012 13:23

This is sometimes what happens...

People see a crap male doctor and think "that doctor was crap".
People see a crap female doctor and think "women doctors tend to be crap".

Femaleness is still noticed so much more than maleness in many professional situations, and people (like the OP) start assuming that behaviour seen in an individual are somehow diagnostic of our whole gender.

grimbletart · 15/10/2012 13:34

What SarkyWench says.

It's particularly disconcerting to see that attitude in feminists though. It seems to illustrate that social conditioning has gone really deep.

Just try seeing individuals as individuals - not representatives of their entire sex. It works.