1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

[Himalaya]

Just listening on the radio.

Thoughts? Experience? Ideas?

That's the problem, physics is not a requirement for medicine or dentistry. If it was needed,some of them might have become engineers!

I doubt it... engineers do not have the right status in this country. Its one of the big problems with this economy. If you're a kid capable of doing science A levels, you may well prefer medicine - extremely well paid by the taxpayer, and if you're a woman, it can be relatively family-friendly - rather than a less well paid, far less secure, undervalued career as an engineer - but engineers, and scientists, are the people more than any who earn money for the country by making stuff we can sell. Its totally arse about face. Germany values engineers... look at their export industries. Sorry, I digress.

We have girls. Both our physics teachers are women though. In fact, 3/4 of the Science department are women, including all the TLR holders.

I find primary physics sometimes embeds those misconceptions though really, in answer in Bonsoir's post right at the beginning of the thread. I have to quickly shut my DC's Science book on Parents' evenings. I would like to see more Science-trained primary teachers though. That would be fabulous!

All students in England and Wales do all three sciences to 16 now. There are a variety of different courses, but they all comprise Biology, Chemistry and Physics.

Harbinger That's the problem, physics is not a requirement for medicine or dentistry. If it was needed,some of them might have become engineers

Actually in Scotland, where its common to do 6-8 Highers for medicine or dentistry, physics is standard. As for engineering, I live in a city which employs a lot of engineers, and have met several very highly paid ones who don't have degrees - whats going on there?!

I would like to see more Science-trained primary teachers though. That would be fabulous!

There was someone on the radio recently - I've forgotten the details but I think he was a scientist who was very into enthusing children - who was suprised when one of his students said she was going into teaching primary...but then he realised how great it was.

DDs primary had a teacher who specialised in science. And one who was a mathematician. Both women so there was no 'girls find maths/science hard' claptrap there! (we've been very lucky)

It strikes me that this idea could attract more girls into continuing science - traditional academic/industry science/eng careers are notoriously family-unfriendly (mine is a wonderful exception, maybe some of you too) - but primary teaching has to be one of the most family-friendly around.

geegee I work with a number of engineers who don't have degrees-they started on site. One in particularly, started as an apprentice spark and worked up to design consultant. You wont find a better electrical engineer. I dont think the academic is the only valid route

geegee - it will depend to some extent on age (there used to be more learn on the job/HNC type routes - in science even if you go further back) and on what type of engineer. Electrical engineer yes -electronic or chemical engineer, less likely I'd have thought.

I don't think it's any more family friendly than secondary, although thinking about it, you are more likely to get sensible part time hours.

Trouble is, most primary teachers seem to do BEd rather than BSc PGCE. And while there's a lot to be said for generalists in primary, at the risk of sounding like Gove, a C grade Science GCSE is no real indicator of genuine scientific understanding...

Really Harbinger ? Where I live doing a combination of science and humanities or arts isn't a problem. Where one school can't do it, they work in cohorts and allow 6th formers to pick up a subject at another school, but the mixing of science and English say, is pretty common.

A bit of a tangent, but for those of you who say you were put off Physics for one reason or another but are still interested, can I point you in the direction of www.coursera.org/courses :) There aren't many physics courses up there yet, but there are a couple of astronomy ones, and lots of maths, computing etc.

As a female physics graduate and former physics teacher, I think that part of the problem is that in many schools physics is taught by a non-specialist, even at A-level. A lot of the enthusiasm for any subject is generated when a teacher has an in-depth knowledge of the subject, and can direct and encourage learning which extends the syllabus.

I personally believe the teaching environment can influence whether students choose a subject , and that schools should prioritise well - equipped labs with full sets of working equipment. I wonder whether there could be a gender difference in terms of the degree to which students are put off by inadequate labs ?

I am stunned that some posters think that primary school children should not be learning how to carry out investigations - that's what underpins the whole of science !

Here's a thought: So many girls are subtly imprinted from birth with notions that "their" territory is pretty, colourful, rounded things- just look at what is marketed as a "girl" toy vs those marketed as "boy" toys even from toddlerhood. "Girl" toys are so much more cosy and domestic and symmetrical, "boy" toys tend to be more industrial and chaotic (think of those Lego transformables) and furthermore challenge building and engineering skills. Even by age 5 most children have a strong notion of what supposed to be interesting to them. Physics appears more industrial and chaotic than other subjects.

By age 14 when serious life choices are being made, it is too late. It is also specious to blame primary schools where the curriculum is the same for everyone, boy or girl.

This gendering crap of the things that very young children play with has a large impact imo.

They should be learning how to do it properly perhaps. Taught by somebody with a good understanding themselves. This is not always the case. I remember being told by my son's teacher in year 2 that he could design a fair test. But when I looked at his book, well, it wasn't her comments that ensured that was the case...

I didn't learn experiment design at primary school. I learned to observe closely though, and record what I saw. I think that is the first skill, and then we can move onto planning and fair tests in secondary schools. It does underpin Science of course, but all children learn Science right up until they are 16. We can pace it.

DD1 is in Y11 at a co-ed non-selective state school. She already has A*s in the chemistry and physics modules completed so far. She is very keen to take physics at A level, and will be going to a co-ed non-selective sixth form college. She will do maths A levels as well, not sure what the fourth will be. However, she wants to be a lawyer!

I just wish primary science was made to be more interesting

isnt that up to individual teachers though kim, in the way it is delivered?

I rest my case:

Toys for Boys

Toys for Girls

duchess...girls toys are symmetrical are they? Now I know why I was so drawn to crystallography!

But seriously... I wish people would just ignore the marketing labels. Buy lego, k'nex, chemistry and electronics sets for the girls in your life... and a few dolls as well if they want them.

peppa - the law would be all the better for more lawyers trained in science and maths - esp statistics. Good for her!

grimma :)

grimma as coincidence would have it I ordered the Primary 2 Electronics kit for dd1 last week. It arrived today..it is GREEEAT!! we've had brilliant fun with it this evening

can hugely recommend it to anyone with primary aged kids

do schools have this kind of stuff now? i only remember making circuits at school, in secondary school

Single sex schools are great for girls. It never occured to me that certain subjects were seen as 'male'. That hit me at university - a friend did engineering and her year was 99% male.

for the gendering crap

I did d&t electronics, most of my friends did food tech, or textiles, a lot did childcare as well.

tbh I only did it out of repulsion for girly stuff. The other options would have been a lot more useful to me (well maybe not food tech, but definitely textiles!)

i remember making circuits in year 2. that was like 89/90

Childcare? They teach that?