1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

[Himalaya]

Just listening on the radio.

Thoughts? Experience? Ideas?

No MrsBaffled, you have a scientific brain, not a male brain!

ohGood thanks for that link, I'm going to get that book. I'm a medical physicist, I have a PhD in physics. Off the top of my head I can name about 30 female friends with physics degrees. Some of them wear sweatshirts, but most of the them wear normal female clothes, even high heels. Some of them are physics teachers (mostly in Scotland), some of them work in hospitals as medical physicists, some are in research or industry/government in alternative energy, nuclear power, radiation protection, patents. I did physics because it was challenging and interesting, and I have had a career as a physics teacher, then a medical physicist, now I'm in medical research.

A huge problem with the teaching of physics in England and Wales is that they allow non-specialists to teach physics, and they don't regard science subjects as practical so you have 30+ kids and it's really difficult to do practical work. In Scotland, maximum class sizes for science (from first year at secondary school upwards) are 20, and you must have at least two years of university education to teach any subject - except for 1st and 2nd years who do general science. That means it's not allowed to have biology teachers teaching physics and vice versa from Standard Grade (GCSE equivalent) onwards. When I taught in Scotland, we did loads of practical work and the kids respected you because they knew that you knew your stuff. In England it was a nightmare, there was never enough equipment to go round the huge classes, and I had to teach biology to some classes. Everyone was bored and frustrated because I hardly know anything about biology and I just couldn't be less enthusiastic about it because I find it quite dull. I have sat in the staff room teaching a biology or a chemistry teacher the content of the physics lesson that they are about to go and teach to their class because they don't understand it themselves. And they hate physics. How can you expect anyone to encourage girls to do something if they hate it themselves?

A lot of this thread has been about physics and engineering, circuit boards and electronics. I have to say that if that had been how physics was sold to me I'd have been completely turned off. Obviously it might work for some people but there's so much more to physics than circuits!

When I did physics A-level the parts that I found fascinating where the modules on quantum mechanics (the very small) and astrophysics (the very big). It should be really easy to make these engaging to young people - space and the wonders of the universe, along with the big bang and projects like the LHC. Brian Cox has done a brilliant job of engaging people at both these levels, we need to capitalise on this.

Funnyperson -I loved that book, remember reading it around A level time. Wonder if it's still at my parent's house.

I'm going to stick some science / electronic kits on my Christmas shopping lists for the DCs and our DNs/ God-DCs.

YY that is a great book. He wrote another one called Structures, I think.

Hello all

We thought you might be interested in two posts from Mumsnet bloggers on this topic - Red Ted Art's post is here, and The Women's Room blogged here (contains Brian Cox )

Thanks, Kate.

Can I vote for Pauline Gagnon instead of Brian Cox though?
www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/09/28/how-is-new-physics-discovered/

I wish there were fewer people (not just girls) studying it at my daughter's school sixth form. Thirty-bloody-five, I tell you. And they can't or won't split the classes .

Bof why won't they split it? That's huge!

I know! They don't have the staff/rooms/space in the timetable, apparently. I have been up there and been all vociferous on their ass, but no dice

I'll just have to find the money for extra tuition somehow. I can't tell you how pissed off I am.

I studied Physics at A-Level and then went on to study it at degree level. I went to an all girls' secondary school, had great teachers etc etc but I don't think that's what made physics interesting for me.

I got a great start in life from a grandfather who was a massive advocate of science. I still have some of the books he bought me about the universe, science experiments you can do at home, dinosaurs... You name it, I probably had an encyclopaedia on it! I was interested in science from pretty much when I could talk and that naturally developed into a love of physics as the most underpinning science of all. I think it's massively important to spark that interest early and to have the subject taught well at primary level.

"Is there any point taking physics though if you don't want to do a physics degree/become a physics teacher?

Maybe we need to change tact and value 'feminine' subjects and encourage boys to take them rather than pushing girls into highly valued 'masculine' subjects?"

Slightly less economic value - to either country or individual - from baking and sewing though than from physics - don't you think? If we are looking to rebuild the economy on the back of growing high tech companies we need women in this area, so we then get female managers, CEOs and board members.

Both My dds have done /doing physics dd1 has it at standard grade and Higher (scotland) dd2 is doing her standard grade next year, in dd2s class there is 2 girls in her class and 2 in the other class, In dd1s higher class there was 2 girls ,

DD1 is doing a degree in sound engineering she needed her physics to get into the course.so it isn't all to do with being a phsyics teacher, My dds loves science and space etc and It shouldn't be perhaps girls are still being discouraged at home hopefully it will get better though

True, true, quantum mechanics and particles are hugely in at the moment since everyone has heard of the large Hadron collider. Cern is in and Astrophysics is in. But not everyone works on the collider and not everyone can work in NASA on the Mars mission so where is the scope?

I always thought it was fascinating to learn how light acted like a wave. Which is relevant to watching stones drop in ponds. Or ducks swimming.

Where is the scope??????

ENGINEERING!!! what more scope do you need? from building bridges and designing roads to designing silent aircraft, new power controllers to reduce energy waste in power packs for devices and lap tops, inverters to allow plug-and-play solar panels, greener refrigeration....

I could go on and on and on.....

Only kidding: loads of engineers in my family, including females, as I mentioned upthread and nephew is reading physics at Imperial (v few girls on the course though)

Sorry funny - speed mumsnetting in between dealing with children so didn't have time to read full thread

I did maths and chemistry A level. I contemplated doing physics but it really didn't interest me and i knew i would be bored. The class was very male dominated, i think there were 2 girls who did physics A level. I didn't think anything of it at the time but this is all very interesting.

I did not do physics A-level (90s), but really I should have been the ideal candidate. I did do Maths and Chemistry and I love a good equation.

You know why I didn't? Because at my school we did combined dual honours science (comprehensive, no single subjects or triple offered) and all the physics was really dull mechanics mostly involving wheels. I hated it with a passion and dropped it.

Every subject needs to fight for its pupil and, IME, physics did a really bad job engaging people. Those who took it tended to be people who needed physics for their job choice, so the fact that there are few women who aspire to be engineers, etc fed back into few taking A-level. The medics, etc all took biology instead.

My daughter goes to a selective single-sex independent school and physics is a very popular A level subject. Her school excels in giving girls high expectations and no end of opportunities to explore their subjects eg entering competitions, attending events at universities. There are no "soft options " at the school , no psychology/media studies/home economics etc .
She has turned out to be more interested in humanities and languages and will probably read Classics at university. The school has been spot-on though. It is not about money .
It is a lot about peer groups, expectations of teachers and expectations of parents . All in all this turns out high achieving , confident girls . Plenty of other schools could follow their example . I do think that the single sex aspect is important for girls, though . I did science A levels at single sex comprehensive . We didn't have the quality of teaching or the opportunities my daughter has had, but peer group support and parental expectations probably saw us through .

Hello all

I'm a Physicist. I never really wanted to do anything else from the age of about 11. I was always good at maths at primary school, and when someone introduced me to telescopes and stars, that was it. I went to a mixed comp to 13 then to a girls' comp. Both were actually quite encouraging, but I think they realised that they'd have to put a hell of an obstacle in my way to stop me.

When I got to university, about 20% of the intake was female, which was above average for the time (mid-80s). Looking back, we all were determined to use our degrees. I think most of us did further degrees/became teachers and researchers.

I got diverted from my original dream to become an astronomer; I went into Medical Physics instead (waves at MOH100), did a MSc to see if I liked it, then a PhD. 20 years later I'm a senior physics fellow doing full-time research with medical imaging.

I love it. I'd hate to be doing anything else.

I did physics A level, along with history and sociology. No maths along with it. I got an A.

I was at an all girls' (state) school -that I hated- , so maybe that was something to do with it?

I really enjoyed studying it, and my only regret was that I couldn't take it further as I had dropped maths after GCSE as it bored me rigid.

I'm a female engineer with Physics and Maths A level. About 5-10% females on those courses at the time.

I would say the "feminine" subjects are more like humanities, sociology etc that my nieces all seem to be taking. Textiles and nutrition are practically chemical engineering at high level.

Baking, sewing, woodwork, metalwork are craft skills which are part of life alongside academic subjects, and the dying out of these skills is yet another scandal IMO.

I design underground structures for a living but it doesn't stop me icing a cake or sewing my own curtains when I get home.

Should we propose a Science Club topic?