Abortion to be reduced to 20 weeks

[avenueone]

There is a story on the front page of the Telegraph tomorrow (paper review) saying that in brief due to babies? being able to survive from a younger age it should be reduced.
I personally don't think this is an argument as I doubt they could survive without medical intervention. I feel it is just another attempt to undermine a woman's right to choose what we do with out bodies. Sorry no link but there should be one around tomorrow and I will try and post it.

"i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it. so far i still feel 24wks is just too late to abort a healthy fetus, most women could do it earlier."

Those who think they would find abortion more traumatic than adoption don't abort. It's a very valid reason not to abort - but it isn't impacted by a law that allows abortion, it would only be impacted by one that requires abortion. The UK doesn't require women to abort in any circumstances.

Also, most women do have abortions earlier than 24 weeks. Even after 20 weeks is very rare.

i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it

That's how you feel, and that's fine, no one is going to stop you doing that should you ever be in that situation.

Personally for me, adoption isn't an option. If I had an unexpected pregnancy it would be abortion or keep the baby, adoption wouldn't even be on the table. That's how I feel, and those feelings are equally as valid as yours.

I think there was a survey once linked on here comparing mental health outcomes for women who aborted an unwanted pregnancy vs those who carried it through and went for adoption. I don't remember the details but I think adoption in those cases led to some mental health issues.

Isn't abortion a bit like gay marriage in the;

"If you don't want gay marriage, don't have one"
"If you don't want abortion, don't have one"

approach.

Why should you limit what others choose to do.

i think personally i'd find having a baby adopted out would be less traumatic than aborting it.

That's how you feel and that's fine, but I'm nearly at the end of a planned but truely horrific pregnancy involving several hospital stays and long periods of pain and sickness. Even though I always wanted my baby not a day went by without considering the option of abortion. I can't imagine how other ladies that went through a horrible pregnancy (that was for some reason unwanted), but who were forced to keep it feel.

Isn't abortion a bit like gay marriage in the;

"If you don't want gay marriage, don't have one"
"If you don't want abortion, don't have one"

approach.

Why should you limit what others choose to do.

Very well said

Is it to be reduced or did they say that it should be?
Either which way, I don't agree that it should be reduced.

doctrine probably because i'm not completely certain where i stand myself . i think i'd like the option not to be there to abort at all except for health (physical/emotional). however whilst it is an option i would/did support a woman who takes that option. i also understand that if the option was removed women would find other ways (not all safe as history has proven).
abortion should and for most women is the last and only option imo

just caught up with the other posts inbetween mine. i really don't doubt there are lots of cases where abortion is a hard and necessary decision but i do know of some where it hasn't been the only option and even, dare i say, used almost as a form of contraception (talking early abortions).

just to make clear, i am only airing my opinions, mean no offence and respect other opinions :)

I'm with optimistic - adoption would never be an option. It would be abortion or keep the child. I can't imagine how hard it would be to have to go through labour (especially if it was as painful as last time!!), and give the child away because I didn't think I could look after it (for whatever reason).

I think a woman's right trumps any right the foetus has.

I agree that it shouldn't be used an contraception, but that comes down to another matter - about sexual and birth control education.

I've got to say, I'm never sure what "abortion as a form of contraception" means. Can you explain what it means to you, mumno?

I don't understand that either Doctrine.

I think it's a way of saying I'm ok with sensible, organised women whose contraception doesn't fail having access to an abortion (though they won't need it) but I'm not happy for disorganised women to have one, or women who had a stomach bug, or any other number of women that I don't like the sound of.

Doctrine

Some clinicians have referred to it when they have done studies on the number of times women have had abortions and found some women that have aborted up to seven times. These statistics are rarely properly examined in context (e.g. is abuse or a lack of education to blame rather then the lady finding it to be an acceptable form of contraception) and are used as 'republican' or 'conservative' fodder very blindly. It's a vile phrase that shouldn't be used but is

ZOmbies, the Women's Minister voted for it to be reduced the last time there was a free vote and she hasn't changed her opinion. As far as I know, there are no current plans to allow another free vote on it.

also can we hear a round of applause for those women who go through abortion seven times. Something is going wrong in their lives - but they are not prepared to let that wrong thing perpetuate and become an unwanted, unloved child in a chaotic home environment.

Yes quite drjohnsonscat. There are a lot of people who want to scrutinise in great detail the lives of women seeking abortions before making a decision: 'Ooh, well, she missed her pill three times and had sex with someone she'd only met the day before. No way are we letting that careless trollop have an abortion.'

or:

'Well, Mrs X has three small children and a disabled husband, and she's very unlucky that her coil came out of position. I think we'll allow her the procedure.'

Thank God these people are not in charge of the law.

I would be interested to see a proper study on that Guybrush. I would be extremely surprised if women who had had multiple multiple abortions (i.e not two or three) were not overwhelming women with drug issues or similarly chaotic personal lives.

MrsTittleMouse - That article is interesting. I couldn't disagree more with the 'giving out condoms encourages sex, which results in more unintended pregnancies' argument from Ms King. I do sometimes wonder whether condoms are the right focus for these programs though. Obviously, it is an extremely tricky area as only condoms give protection from STIs. But I wonder whether a better focus isn't long term contraception like the injection, mirena and implant, rather than something you have to use every single time. (It is, of course, a whole feminist issue why women end up taking responsibility for contraception, but I'm focusing at the moment on protecting women as best as possible within that unfair situation).

You'llLaugh I agree, the lack of of proper research in anything to do with pregnancy or women's health is frankly quite disturbing. I've worked with several high ranking medical professionals that have said flippantly that women's health is about 100 years behind what it would have been if the medical profession hadn't started out so male dominated and had 2000 years of everything being attributed to hysteria.

Guybrush, that is terrifying! And quite rage-inducing.

I'm never sure what "abortion as a form of contraception" means. Can you explain what it means to you, mumno? To me contraception is a way to stop sex leading to pregnancy. For some that I know, it's taken that step further and considered as a way to stop sex leading to a baby, regardles of the pg already having started. Ok the term is incorrect but that's how some see it/use it.

I think it's a way of saying I'm ok with sensible, organised women whose contraception doesn't fail having access to an abortion (though they won't need it) but I'm not happy for disorganised women to have one, or women who had a stomach bug, or any other number of women that I don't like the sound of. Not at all. I think the system is abused in that some (I know not all or even the majority) use it as an extension of contraception or the morning after pill.

I would be extremely surprised if women who had had multiple multiple abortions (i.e not two or three) were not overwhelming women with drug issues or similarly chaotic personal lives. I know of at least 3 women who between the ages of 19-25 have had 4+ abortions because they were a bit careless but could have continued with their pgs and gone on to be loving, responsible mums. 1 wanted to continue her uni career (understandable but worth a life?), 2 felt they were too young both of whom went on to have children with the same jobs, partners, life as they had a few years before.

I had an abortion when I felt I was too young. I suppose you could say that I used abortion as contraception - we were using condoms but I got pregnant anyway and had an abortion so as to not end up with a baby. I didn't want the risk to my health at the time, but mainly the impact on my ability to make the most of my life. I didn't think I'd be a very good mother and there were lots of things I did actually want to do that weren't compatible with being pregnant or having a child.

More than a decade later I had children with the same partner (obviously my life and job had moved on a bit though). But I highly doubt the children I do have would be here if I hadn't had that abortion. I can't see that my partner and I would have stayed together. I don't think the child we would have had if I hadn't aborted would have had as good a life as the children we now have.

Our bodies make decisions all the time about continuing pregnancy. Some estimates suggest more than half of all pregnancies are naturally aborted. Why is our mind the only organ that shouldn't be involved in deciding whether our bodies should continue with a pregnancy?

@mumnos

Why do you feel that you know better than those women about whether they could have been good mothers? If they didn't feel able to do it, I would be inclined to trust their judgement. Are you suggesting you know them better than they know themselves? Just because their life circumstances stayed the same between their abortions and their deciding to have children, it doesn't mean their mental state or readiness for motherhood didn't change dramatically during that time.

I think the system is abused in that some (I know not all or even the majority) use it as an extension of contraception or the morning after pill

How on earth is that an abuse? Contraception, MAP and abortion are all ways not to have an unwanted child. Some act on processes before conception, some after conception but before implantation and some after implantation. The net result is the same.

Isn't MAP sometimes regarded as an abortion by some activists?