Sports Personality of the Year - jaw-on-floor at this quote......

[Lottapianos]

..... in response to so many athletes having excelled this year and the dilemma of who should win the overall award.

'There could be a female personality of the year, which I don't think would detract from the main award.......' said James Hutchison, from sports prediction website Superbru (read in Metro)

The main award? THE MAIN AWARD?????

I had to read that quote about 10 times before I could believe it was real. Holy crap. I have kept the newspaper I read it in and I feel like taping the page on my fridge to remind myself every single day of just how unimportant women are to some people. How on earth must Jessica Ennis and Rebecca Adlington and Ellie Simmonds and Victoria Pendleton feel reading that sort of rot???

I'm not even a sports fan but this has made me scream. A lot.

To say that a female or Paralympic athlete can't be inspiring is silly. Personally, I find female athletes more inspiring although I do admire the achievements of male athletes.

This is a great thread on something I feel very strongly about. Where, for instance, is the TV coverage of women's sports? Why is it always male-dominated sports such as football, rugby and cricket. How can we hope to inspire a generation of girls to take up sport if once the Olympics are over we simply revert to the norm? I think we should start a campaign here on Mumsnet for more terrestrial coverage of women's sport - that could include tennis, track and field, cycling anything to take us away from the feeling that only one half of the nation takes part in sport. I am surprised with the obesity figures as they are in this country that the government has not done more to address this issue.

messyisthenewtidy
"Uppercut, why be so arrogant just because you have extra muscle tissue? I found the paralympians inspiring because of what they had to overcome to get where they are. I feel the same about the women Olympians and what they had to overcome, namely the discouraging bullshit that comes from people like you.

So what would you do if you were a woman? Just give up, sit back and cheer on the men cos you'll never be as good as them? Or maybe try your hardest, train as hard, etc, but just meekly accept that you'll never be get the recognition or rewards because you had the misfortune to be born with a fanjo?"

You must have missed the part where I mentioned separate awards, which, with all due respect, invalidates your griping.

So someone can only be inspiring by virtue of birth, and being handed down slightly larger genes?

Well, that doesn't take any skill at all.

The strongest and fastest athletes have "slightly larger genes"?

I must have missed that biology lesson.

It's amusing to see a male poster on here who doesn't seem to rate female athletes, particularly when you read today

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9549351/UCI-Road-World-Championships-2012-Bradley-Wiggins-wants-to-invest-in-a-cycling-team-for-Britains-women.html

If Bradley Wiggins, Tour de France winner, Olympic gold medallist and all-round top bloke thinks women are worth supporting - and investing his own money in - I would have thought that a couch potato such as Uppercut could find it in himself to, albeit grudgingly, admit that at least some women sportspeople are worth respect.

Wiggo quote: ?I just have an amazing respect for what our women do. They are the forgotten ones in the sport and yet they have just as big a success as we do with the men."

He must be - sshh - whisper it quietly - just a teeny bit inspired by them......

grimbletart
"If Bradley Wiggins, Tour de France winner, Olympic gold medallist and all-round top bloke thinks women are worth supporting - and investing his own money in - I would have thought that a couch potato such as Uppercut could find it in himself to, albeit grudgingly, admit that at least some women sportspeople are worth respect."

Appeal to authority: Wiggin's accolades, and your opinion as to how awesome he is, are irrelevant.

Misrepresentation: I never said women sportspeople weren't worthy of repsect; I said I wouldn't personally use them as inspiration.

As for "couch potato"...? Where did I say that? I sense I'm going to get another laugh out of someone's tentative grasp of biology. Or maybe you'll fabricate some other baseless accusation to throw at me. Perhaps you'll surprise me with a different kind of logical fallacy. Go on, surprise me.

grimbletart
"He must be - sshh - whisper it quietly - just a teeny bit inspired by them......2"

Conjecture.

And, even if true, what Wiggins thinks, and what he does with his money, is his business and is of no concern to me.

Why so defensive Uppercut?

Not a couch potato? Maybe I was a tad hard on you. Correct me if I have the wrong poster in mind but I think it was you who said you were 20ibs overweight but could remedy it if you wanted. You don't become 20lbs overweight by being really active and sporty (unless your extra 20lbs is pure muscle and you are a second row forward or you do heavy reps...)

I never said women sportspeople aren't worthy of repsect; I said I wouldn't personally use them as inspiration. Who would you use as a matter of interest?

I don't at all apologise for appealing to authority when it's Bradley Wiggins. There someone who genuinely knows what he is talking about when it comes to sport.

grimbletart

"Why so defensive Uppercut?

Not a couch potato? Maybe I was a tad hard on you. Correct me if I have the wrong poster in mind but I think it was you who said you were 20ibs overweight but could remedy it if you wanted. You don't become 20lbs overweight by being really active and sporty (unless your extra 20lbs is pure muscle and you are a second row forward or you do heavy reps...)"

Resistance training and excess calories will result in you getting stronger but fatter. It's really quite simple.

grimbletart
"Who would you use as a matter of interest?"

If I was setting myself a target I would use whichever athlete excelled in that area of training/sport, probably male, but not necessarily.

grimbletart
"I don't at all apologise for appealing to authority when it's Bradley Wiggins"

Haha, appealing to authority, by definition, invalidates an argument.

grimbletart
"There someone who genuinely knows what he is talking about when it comes to sport"

Pity for you he's not said anything that exposes my reasoning as being fundamentally flawed.

I suspect Uppercut is just a little worried that the girlies might show up the boys which is why they need their own second rate award so the boys don't have to compete.

Will it be Sports Personality of the Year and Female Sports Personality of the Year? Thereby defining the female as the 'other'?

You may find this illuminating

Appealing to authority invalidates an argument? That's the academic system of citing papers fucked, then.

slug
"I suspect Uppercut is just a little worried that the girlies might show up the boys which is why they need their own second rate award so the boys don't have to compete."

A suspicion based on nothing; I'm happy for men and woman to compete in the same field, at the same time, for the same performance-based award.

slug
"Will it be Sports Personality of the Year and Female Sports Personality of the Year? Thereby defining the female as the 'other'?"

I think male and female would work just fine.

Have you done?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch
"Appealing to authority invalidates an argument? That's the academic system of citing papers fucked, then."

Eh? If I cite papers its because they support a statement I've made with refutable evidence, not because they have impressive names attached to them.

No idea what the Arts crowd do mind you.

Don't feed, it gives them exactly what they want.

Shame, it's a very interesting OP and very worthy of a proper discussion.

Ah, so a 20lbs overweight but strong person = a glutton who does resistance training.

Appealing to an authority does not, by definition as you say, invalidate an argument. It only does that if it is a fallacious appeal to authority i.e. if it is about something outside that person's area of expertise. But you know that really don?t you?

I?m somewhat dubious about the quality of your reasoning Uppercut, but I hope it is more reliable than your belief that Pistorius was in the 100 metres final.

Sorry Randal - you're right, don't feed a WUM.

grimbletart
"Ah, so a 20lbs overweight but strong person = a glutton who does resistance training."

You tried to characterize me as a lazy "couch potato" who has no engagement with physical training. You failed. Give it up.

grimbletart
"Appealing to an authority does not, by definition as you say, invalidate an argument. It only does that if it is a fallacious appeal to authority i.e. if it is about something outside that person's area of expertise. But you know that really don?t you?"

Appealing to his authority is fallacious as B. Wiggins personal opinion about sportswoman does not refute my reasoning regarding the people I would personally use for inspiration. I'm not making a refutable statement about the best way to ride a bloody bike.

It appears WUM in this context means someone you disagree with but can't prove wrong.

So who do people think will make the shortlist? Jess Ennis, Vicky Pendleton, Mo Farah, Laura Trott, Bradley Wiggins, Andy Murray... Who else?

Uppercut - you should know about failure. Pistorius in 100 metres final?

Shortlist Doctrine? David Weir, Sarah Storey, Ellie Simmonds probably from the paralympics, Ben Ainslie maybe? I think it is likely to come down to Wiggins or Murray - unless there is a massive campaign from a sport to boost the voting of an individual as happened with Ryan Giggs.

Katherine Grainger and Chris Hoy too, I'd say Doctrine. Quite a Scottish line-up!

Chris Hoy for the lifetime achievement one.

Individuals I really don't know, way too many to choose from!

I think 2 separate awards is a good idea but the way it's being worded is seriously boiling my piss!

^'The strongest and fastest athletes have "slightly larger genes"?

I must have missed that biology lesson."^

Ah right, I didn't realise I was dealing with quite such a literal character.

So, by virtue of being born bigger - something over which one has no control or input and which requires absolutely zero skill, talent and training - one will be better.

Doesn't take very much to impress you, does it?

It seems I've killed the thread.

grimbletart
"Uppercut - you should know about failure. Pistorius in 100 metres final? "

Yes, yes, we've already been through this; I grossly overestimated his abilities during my recollection of which race he'd lost. Moving along...

SomersetONeil
"So, by virtue of being born bigger - something over which one has no control or input and which requires absolutely zero skill, talent and training - one will be better."

You may have a point if the average olypmic athlete had "zero skill, talent and training" and that the likes of Usain Bolt can only run as fast as he does because he has "larger genes" and completely ignore the fact he's probably made the most of his genetic potential through hard training.

As it stands all you have is a poorly stuffed strawman.

SomersetONeil
"Doesn't take very much to impress you, does it?"

On the contrary, you haven't impressed me at all. Don't be disheartened though. Occasionally I'm impressed by someone's sheer bloody-mindedness in trying to make a nonsensical point.