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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Offensive to Muslims

27 replies

stretto · 02/09/2012 15:59

I read this story in the Herald yesterday, but can't find it on the Herald's online edition. Here's another version of it. www.indianexpress.com/news/man-let-off-for-cruide-remarks-due-to-restrictive-muslim-background/995952/

In a nutshell, this guy has escaped a sexual harassment charge by claiming that he didn't know he was being offensive because of the strictures of his religion and upbringing.
I think this verdict is both an insult to the women who were brave enough to speak out, and a massive slur on Muslim men in the workplace.

*Man let off for crude remarks due to 'restrictive Muslim background'
On Friday a British Asian pharmacist who made crude remarks to three woman colleagues was let off by an inquiry panel because he came from a 'restrictive Muslim background' and was unaware of the offence his conduct had caused.

Scotland-based pharmacist Khalil Jamil asked one of the women about her favourite love-making position and quizzed another about the mating habits of her horses, but a professional panel ruled his behaviour was not sexually motivated, the Daily Mail reported.

The General Pharmaceutical Council panel found Jamil acted inappropriately by making the comments and standing too close to his assistants.

However, they accepted that his background in a strict Muslim community meant he was unfamiliar to working in such an open environment with women and his basic social skills meant he lacked understanding of appropriate conduct, the report said.

As the remarks were not sexually motivated the panel cleared Jamil of misconduct and gave him an official warning.

It also took into consideration the fact that Jamil had remedied his actions by attending a 'dignity at work' course.

Panel chairman Patrick Malmo said: "He felt the source of this behaviour in 2009, was that he comes from a very restrictive background, with little social life, and none at all outside of his own community".

He added: "He lacked social skills, and had little knowledge of how one should be when working with colleagues.

"He was unable to distinguish between friendliness and over familiarity. We do not think there is a serious risk of this kind of conduct being repeated".*

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stretto · 02/09/2012 16:04

There's a fuller version of the story on the Daily Mail website.

I would normally avoid quoting from the Daily Poison, but the substance of the story was the same in the Herald, which is a paper I respect.

"In a statement read to the hearing one of Jamil?s colleagues, referred to as CH, said she was working with Jamil at the Cooperative Pharmacy in Fauldhouse, West Lothian, in July 2009, when he asked: ?Do you have a boyfriend? Do you want a boyfriend??

She said: ?Whenever it went quiet he came back to me and stood close again. He asked me if I was into sports, I said ?No?.

?He said he was into boxing and said feel my stomach. He grabbed my wrist and tried to get me to touch his stomach.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2196254/Khalil-Jamil-Pharmacist-sexual-remarks-colleagues-let-Muslim-background.html

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Uppercut · 04/09/2012 12:22

I'm guessing this thread is so quiet because the regulars can't cope with the cognitive dissonance resulting from the Daily Mail highlighting a feminist issue.

stretto · 04/09/2012 13:49

Smile at Uppercut

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GoldenGeek · 04/09/2012 15:01

Tbf, the editors at the Wail must have had spinning heads trying to decide who to condemn here...

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 04/09/2012 15:05

Of course it was wrong that he was not properly sanctioned for his behaviour. I dont believe that he didnt understand his behaviour was inappropriate. And even if that was true, everyone has a responsibility to understand acceptable behaviour in their workplace.

But the Daily Mail has not highlighted this because it is a feminist issue, but because it is an anti Muslim story.

firawla · 04/09/2012 15:09

no no no no - this is ridiculous!!!!!! his background should have let him know even more, that this is not acceptable. how the hell can he use that as an excuse, it's total bull shit. if that is true (daily mail so never know) this really pisses me off

reading the article it sound more like perhaps he has some learning difficulties or social difficulties whereby he finds it difficult to know what kind of conversation is appropriate? Confused that is a bit more understandable. if its just a case of religion then what a joke - especially when islam teaches men to behave the opposite of that

Uppercut · 04/09/2012 15:34

EatsBrainsAndLeaves
"But the Daily Mail has not highlighted this because it is a feminist issue, but because it is an anti Muslim story."

The question is whether an individual's (multi)cultural background can be used to excuse their inappropriate and potentially criminal behaviour. I would say no in answer to this question. Which is to possibly suggest a rejection of the very concept of multicultralism and therefore to agree with the general position of the DM. However grubby this thought process may make you feel, that this is a feminist issue is not altered by the DM's alleged motives, or your feelings with regard to those motives.

stretto · 04/09/2012 16:10

Well, I originally read the story in the print version of the Herald, which is an excellent Scottish broadsheet with a strong editorial commitment to social justice.
It's a pity I couldn't find it in the online Herald, then I wouldn't have had to use the Mail link. I feel that that has coloured people's reaction to the story.

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NameGames · 04/09/2012 16:20

In the Herald.

Frontpaw · 04/09/2012 16:30

Crying 'its my religion!' a load of rot.

So he speaks to women in his community, or her thinks women outsied his community are slags? Not sure which is worse. So he would ask female bus driver, women in the queue at Tesco and customers about their sex lives too (assuming they weren't obviously muslim)?

I have met quite a few men brought up in strict islamic couhtries and they would never ever speak like that to anyone.

The Herald story didnt say where he was brought up (in a bubble perhaps?). 'Dignity at work' course?? Maybe a 'Sexism is wrong, you idiot' course.

amirah85 · 04/09/2012 16:39

As a muslim,I find his excuse very offensive.why would his upbringing justify his stupid behaviour??ridicolus

Frontpaw · 04/09/2012 16:51

Sounds like something his lawyer told him to say. Surely his employers would have pulled him up before it got this far?

A twat is a twat - there is no excuse (religious, cultural or otherwise).

alemci · 04/09/2012 16:53

I think his defence is feeble and pathetic. he would have gone to school and university so it doesn't wash with me.

Frontpaw · 04/09/2012 17:05

I guess the real defence of 'I'm a creepy and sad little man' wouldn't have got him off.

stretto · 04/09/2012 17:15

I wonder if the judge is a misogynist. Maybe he secretly approved of what Khalil Jamil was doing.

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bb99 · 04/09/2012 17:15

My xh was a (fallen) muslim and his more observant male relatives wouldn't even sit in the same room alone with an unrelated woman (or maybe they just didn't like me Wink) much less sidle up to one and talk about sex.

It seems the panel may misunderstand the cultural aspects of this case and the newshounds are taking advantage to do a muslim bashing story...

Frontpaw · 04/09/2012 17:24

I'm amazed that none of the women smacked him in the chops and told him to piss off. 'My culture dictates that odious creatures are treated thus'.

Man was a prat, got caught, cried 'religion' and got off. I wonder what his father and brothers, cousins etc thought of it all? I suspect he is the 'there's always one in every family' as my father woukd say (or 'a village is missing its idiot').

sashh · 05/09/2012 06:18

What a load of tosh. A strict muslim man wouldn't even attempt to touch a woman. And I mean wouldn't shake hands.

Frontpaw · 05/09/2012 09:16

Not if he was one of those ignorant 'non Muslim women are fair game' types. Either way, the man is an idiot. How can people act in such a way and not think 'hang on, if that was my sister and some bloke spoke to her like that...'

stretto · 05/09/2012 10:16

I just find it a very odd story. He was a pharmacist, not some primitive oaf. So the innocent fool argument doesn't work.
And as for the judge - either some bribery was going on behind the scenes, or he was being blatantly misogynistic.

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Frontpaw · 05/09/2012 10:24

I amssuming he was brought up and studies somewhere else? Maybe the stone age?

nailak · 05/09/2012 10:33

What has being brought up in restrictive environment and un used to contact with women got to do with anything. would he like his mother or sister or wife to be treated this way? If not why treat other people this way. He deserves sacking. I hope the women appeal.

Frontpaw · 05/09/2012 11:53

I can't really imagine how this man got to however old he is withough being in contact with women - teachers, doctors, fellow students... He didn't look Afghani for example.

I think he is either very sneaky (thought he'd get away with it) and has no respect for (non Muslim) women, or he is genuinely not quite the full shilling. Either way... How did he not get the message? Why didn't his bosses pull him up? If he was working in a few places, he must have had a female boss at some point, so he didn't ask her odd questions?

alemci · 05/09/2012 12:10

so do I and give them plenty of legal aid. what a disgrace to his religion and to men in general. i hate the way this is being used as a get out of jail free card.

he must be an educated man to be a pharmacist so it just doesn't add up.

confuddledDOTcom · 05/09/2012 12:13

How did he manage to go through his whole education without ever discovering this was inappropriate (assuming he's telling the truth)?

Like others have said, I can't imagine any Muslim man thinking this is OK, although I have met some men like Frontpaw describes. I had to be rescued in a night club by a group of women from one once and we had him kicked out because he was getting quite touchy with a lot of women. It's like for some of them (and I'd no way say this is normal amongst Muslim men nor culture/ religion) if you're not like a good Muslim woman you're a slut or something.