"Don't guess it's a Yes" - concept and slogan

[solidgoldbrass]

Have been trying to get this concept across in a snappy comprehensible fashion for a while and that's the latest. Basically: people should accept that having sex with someone is not OK just because they haven't actually stabbed you when you started; any sexual partner you have should be participating and appreciating and encouraging you to continue. If none of that is happening, you should STOP.

I have no idea how to do that. I am being very clear with dd that any sign frim someone that they aren't happy means stop. I'm hoping that she will have it drummed into her by the time she's a teen.

Who would you be aiming this at? It sounds a bit cliched to use a rhyme, but not sure I can come up with anything better.

"If you have to guess, it's NOT a Yes" ...?

I'd like to help you but I'm not good at creating slogans... :(

Anyway, I really appreciated you started this thread :)

It's catchy, but . . . I'm not sure that it will really get the message across to the men who rape, particularly those who convince themselves that what they are doing isn't rape.

Some only associate the word "rape" with what Todd Akin referred to as "legitimate rape" - i.e. rape that follows the classic silent film script of deranged strange man violently attacking a chaste woman by surprise and forcing sex. Everything else is something "lesser." If they know each other, they don't believe it's even in the same ballpark as "real rape."

Some simply don't believe they need explicit consent to have sex. Like the George Galloways of the world, they believe that consent once means consent in perpetuity. There's no guess work involved.

Some believe that women are in a perpetual state of consent unless fully and clearly proved otherwise. The bar of proof tends to be pretty high. They aren't guessing about consent. They are assuming it's there.

Some are revisionists. They will insist that both they and the other person were too drunk/drugged to really think about what they were doing. It was just "regretful sex" for both of them, nothing like rape.

In my view, there are many, many men for whom gaining full, enthusiastic consent before having sex isn't really on the radar. I don't think they actually experience ethical dilemmas over whether the other person agrees to sex or to a particular sex act or not. I think we may hope that if men are only told how and why this is wrong, it will twig their consciences and they will change. I'm not really convinced though that will happen.

And the reason for that is that there are so many counter messages out there, telling men that they are entitled to sex with women, any women, wherever, whenever and however they want. If they have to lie to get it, it's okay. If they have to find someone who may be unable to fully consent, it's okay. If they have to bully someone into it, it's okay. So long as they don't step over into anything that could be described as "legitimate rape" by the Todd Akins of the world, it's probably okay. The risk of being held accountable is miniscule. Go fill your boots. It's your right!

Having said that, I do believe that ANYTHING that generates discussion about the issue has the potential to shift these attitudes, to break the conditioning, even where the denial, the outrage, etc. can be soul-destroying.

Sorry if that sounds rather negative.

for KRITIQ.

Received with great thanks! :) (Now off to get a real one! :) )

SGB, if you could somehow get around the othering that KRITIQ describes that would be a fantastic campaign.

Trigger warning

The only thing I can think of is a picture of a sleeping man on his front, who would be an "everyday bloke" in terms of looks, maybe with beer bottles around him and in his underwear, and something like:

"You don't think he's consented to this (picture of dildo), do you?"

I like it, solid.
Doesn't have to be the definitive slogan, but I think it's a really good one: clear, snappy... Like it.

"If you have to guess, it's NOT a Yes" is better IMO. I find "Don't guess it's a yes" linguistically ambiguous: I first read it as "Don't guess, it's a yes" and then was confused about what you meant.

Only yes means yes.

'If you have to guess it's NOT a yes' is a rebuttable presumption.
'Don't guess it's a yes' is sound advice, though.

LastM, I think my concern with "don't guess it's a yes" is that a pause after guess would make the sentence mean "(you) don't (have to) guess, it's a yes(!)" which is totally the other meaning.

I have no great attachment to my suggestion but I don't know what a rebuttable presumption is!

You could remove the ambiguity by making it 'don't guess that it's a yes' but that is probably less catchy. Only an issue if it is going to be written rather than spoken though. It's good, though. What are you planning to use it for?

A rebuttable presumption is a statement that needs more qualifying facts to support it, but has been made without those facts being known/available. And in the absence of those facts (or sometimes, in their presence), or with different facts - all of which would be equally possible at the time statement was made - the statement can be can be disproved.
Well that's what I think it is, but perhaps that was a rebuttable presumption!

Ooh, gawd, see what you mean WRT inferences now, Doctrine - and I'm starting to see it as an unfortunate 'Frankie Say Relax'-type disaster. Perhaps Lynne Truss should be consulted.
Or perhaps it all depends on font type/design (so e.g. 'Keep calm and Carry On' style WWII bold type would send a different message to Katherine Hamnett-style chunky capitals, and Teutonic 'Motorhead' font would say something completely different...)

I have been thinking about this. While wholeheartedly agreeing with the thinking behind the slogan, I'm wondering about the slogan itself - but I am uncertain whether it works or not.

My feeling is that the slogan emphasises the 'yes' whereas actually the problem with rape, coercive sex, or even feeling pressured, is that the 'no' isn't heard.

I didn't think of the comma issue, but more like 'Don't guess it's a yes = Confirm it's a yes', which emphasises consent and could just mean explicitly make sure you have it, rather than 'Don't guess it's a yes, respect a no', which is the real issue.

That said, the best I could come up with was 'No consent No sex' which sounds a bit draconian.

Urgh, didn't phrase that last sentence well at all, sorry, I'm tired. I obviously don't mean No consent No sex is draconian, just that if you have a teen audience, then it's not very snappy.

'it' being the slogan, double urgh. I give up now.

Thanks LastM! I see what you are saying. I was thinking of the whole enthusiastic consent thing and meaning "if you have to guess" (how she is feeling then) "it's not a yes" - ie if she's saying "that's brilliant, keep going" then you don't really need to guess how things are going but if you are getting no feedback if it is good or bad, then it's NOT a yes and you should stop and find out what is wrong.

I know it's a quote from a song and I can't even remember which one, but:
If you wanna touch her, ask.

is snappy but not quite "enthusiastic"

Are you sure it's a yes?
Please ask, don't guess.

You're having a good time. Is she?

Have you guessed it's a yes?
If you don't know,, it's a no.

Still musing (though on a slight side note, was cheered last night by the number of 'Mr Grey is a Lousy Lay' badges I sold...)

TheDoctrineOfEnnis

"SGB, if you could somehow get around the othering that KRITIQ describes that would be a fantastic campaign.

Trigger warning

The only thing I can think of is a picture of a sleeping man on his front, who would be an "everyday bloke" in terms of looks, maybe with beer bottles around him and in his underwear, and something like:

"You don't think he's consented to this (picture of dildo), do you?"

That won't work. Stick to female rape.

Your target audience would look at that and think 'A dildo up the arse? Haha, good thing I'm not gay'. The idea of being raped by a woman is comical to most men, for obvious physical reasons.