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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Eve did not have a separate function apart from Adam...see this insidious blog post about saving Christian women from work

64 replies

DillyTante · 09/08/2012 21:34

"Eve did not have a separate function apart from Adam. Eve's function was defined perfectly in terms of Adam's function. When we understand what Adam was doing then we can understand why Eve was created...The purpose that God had in bringing Eve out of the side of Adam was so Adam would have a helper for his job, for his vocation...not a separate vocation of her own."

This from a speech in a blog post linked by excellent blogger Gloss Watch

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StewieGriffinsMom · 09/08/2012 21:37

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TheMysteryCat · 09/08/2012 21:46

Eve was made from Adam's rib after a previous attempt by God when he made Lilith equal to Adam. Lilith refused to lie underneath Adam, called God and told him so and then departed Eden to go breed demons in the Red Sea...

Twas only then that God thought he might create a subservient woman and was nowt to do with work.

Selective Christianity really tweaks my angry bones.

Really like the GlossWatch blog though.

StewieGriffinsMom · 09/08/2012 21:57

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/08/2012 22:32

Oh, yes.

I know a lovely woman I studied with who believes this sort of thing. I respect her and feel affectionate towards her but it makes me really sad that she is such a wonderful, intelligent, warm person who is being made less than she is by this sort of stuff.

samandi · 10/08/2012 09:18

God those people are freaks!

I'd quite like a little helper too, perhaps I should write a book making up some stuff about how God said I should have one.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 09:22

I know what you're saying, but the sad thing is, some people are properly, deeply committed to this stuff, and live or socialize with other people who reinforce those beliefs. It's systematized abuse of women dressed up as a belief, IMO.

DillyTante · 10/08/2012 09:56

I know, it's awful. As are the comments, e.g. The stay-at-home-daughter. It starts in childhood.

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DillyTante · 10/08/2012 10:05

And the language is just so awful, Princess, hero, rescuer. And one of the tags is Manhood. And it says on her exit interview notes "New Employer" with her husband's name. I just can't believe these communities exist. But I suppose if you get enough of these people together they all just confirm each others' beliefs like LRD said.

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DillyTante · 10/08/2012 10:12

More from Pastor Bacon

"Whatever we do, work hard and do it with our children around us Dads. If they don't get it from Dad, they'll get it from Mom and while that's good, it's second best. Subliminally children are learning that Christianity is woman's work. This is wrong. 'Men' pick up the bible! 'Men' go to war for Christ! This is how we are going to become the head and not the tail of the nations. This is how we are going to tear down the strong holds in our nations."

Pastor Bacon quotes his father, "Men that know how, will always have a job, men that know why, will always be the boss."

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 10:18

Yes, absolutely, the language is really problematic.

Especially this almost ecstatic 'oh, I'm so special' language women are using about themselves.

I know people who argue with complete seriousness that Christ was made man, and therefore a woman can never be the icon, or likeness, of Christ. Isn't that horrible?

LastMangoInParis · 10/08/2012 12:29

Adam's little helper, Santa's little helper - meh.

ethelb · 10/08/2012 12:39

these people are nuts. check out the bride in training part.

Though they must have v clean houses.

Portofino · 10/08/2012 12:55

Someone linked to Netmums yesterday and someone had a ticker with a pic of her dh/dp and the comment "Owned by xxx for 2 year 3 months" I was tempted to sign up just to give her a piece of my mind.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 13:41

'owned by'?

That's, um, revolting.

MamaMary · 10/08/2012 13:49


This makes me feel ashamed to be a Christian.

None of this stuff is 'biblical' - it's all cultural- Pastor Bacon is spouting nonsense. Those poor women.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 13:57

You know, it doesn't make me feel ashamed to be Christian. It has nothing to do with my beliefs at all, that's how far away I think it is.

I think it's a situation where culture and religion have become very closely linked. I wonder if it's a reaction against modern life, actually? It seems this sort of stuff is very popular in the US, almost as a backlash against modernisation.

Whatmeworry · 10/08/2012 14:14

Didn't Lilith bugger off and bonk an Archangel, who then fell from Grace?

What a girl......

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 14:17

Ooh, I am liking Lilith! Grin

The angels fell from grace before humans, is that right?

Where do you lot get your biblical myths, I obviously need to read up!

amybelle1990 · 10/08/2012 14:26

I didn't realise that this sort of thing happens in Western societies :S

It feels a little bit like they're being brainwashed. Like glosswitch said, there's nothing wrong with being a stay at home mum, but to celebrate male domination in this way is a bit vile and 'in your face'!

TheMysteryCat · 10/08/2012 14:27

whatmeworry is the Zoharic history of Lilith, she did indeed... it was Samael aka Satan!

She gave birth to thousands of children which God had killed.

It used to be customary to put signs over the doors of newlyweds homes which said "Adam and Eve! Out Lilith!" as Lilith was blamed for impotency issues or for seducing the men in the night and taking them away from their Eve-like wives...

When the King James version of the Bible was written, all references to Lilith were removed and any single reference to her name was replaced with a creature, usually an Owl. There was one omission, she is mentioned in Isaiah 34:14

34:14 "And shall-meet desert creatures et (particle) jackals
the goat he-calls his- fellow
lilith she-rests and she-finds rest
34:15 there she-shall-nest the great-owl, and she-lays-(eggs), and she-hatches, and she-gathers under her-shadow:
hawks also they-gather, every one with its mate.

She's such a tricky figure for Patriarchal religions, especially Christianity, to do with, so they omit her.

TheMysteryCat · 10/08/2012 14:32


There are a few brilliant texts on this area; the most relevant for Lilith Judaic Goddess myths is Raphael Patai who is THE authority on the subject. Robert Graves covered some elements, but not as thoroughly as Patai.

There's also From the Beast to the Blonde by Marina Warner - a wonderful study of the feminine in fairytales, which of course touches into religious myth.

The best anthropological book I've found, is Anne Baring and Jules Cashford's The Myth of the Goddess. Lots of very detailed and beautiful images of relics, icons etc.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 14:51

Thank you! I have the Marina Warner (and love it), but I must have forgotten or skimmed that bit. And I have Robert Graves.

I shall look up the others, you're a star.

The Myth of the Goddess sounds great.

I wonder about the KJB - as I understand it, both the medieval vulgate and the KJB are mistranslating here, and they think she's a dark demon/a 'lamia' (like the romantic poem). I looked at wiki and it's really interesting:

I wonder ... the devil in lots of medieval books is not allowed to be depicted, so he is scrubbed out, and sometimes a black cat is interpreted as his symbol ... I wonder if it's similar to the owl, since they're both animals associated with magic and sometimes with heresy. I would like to think so!


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TheMysteryCat · 10/08/2012 16:58

Yes, I think you're right about owls and cats.

The earliest literature about polity comes from the gilgamesh - she was his mother.

And lamia is lilith too. See Keats. the romantics were obsessed with her rossetti painted her and later so did others.

TheMysteryCat · 10/08/2012 16:59

Lilith, not polity!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 10/08/2012 17:05

Oh, that's very cool! Smile

But what is sad is that all of this we're discussing is apocrypha at best (of course), and myth at worst - and yet, so is what these women are being told is the truth, in the OP.

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