Women only playbarn

[blackcats73]

I just wondered what everyone thinks of the following story;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2185041/Fathers-banned-play-centres-women-decree.html

I sort of understand the women only rule but boys over 9????? Though my Ds (8)is outgrowing playbarns anyway.

Some of the comments (yes I know it's the Daily Mail) from both sides are offensive.

Sorry, not a very coherent post. I'm still trying to work out what I think.

whoever said they are not sure if its true - it is true, i know people over there who have been talking about this place. the reaction i heard from the muslim community in that area was really positive about it actually, the mums are saying its really good to have a womens only place and that mainly mums are looking after kids while dads in work anyway so they think its logical and fine and will be better for them to feel comfy in there etc

personally when i go soft play im not bothered if men are there or not but i dont think its that big of a deal that this place is women only. its catering for a market that want women only events, and its a business so surely its up to them what service they offer?

we have loads of womens and kids only fundays and events in our community so to me a women only soft play is not really such a big leap from that although i admit i dont see a major need from it, as dads at soft play is not too much of an issue for me. some women are a lot more comfier in a strictly segregated environment

I think they would have been better off with LONG women only sessions Mon-Fri, if they feel that is what will suit the customers.

That would presumably meet things better - they must want family / party business at weekends surely. And wouldn't attract attention from the press.

At the local church they also have separate meetups for men and women. The women's is named something silly to do with power and strength whilst the men's is named something matey so to appear not too sharey/emotional.

I don't really have a problem with separate social clubs as long as each gender has complete equal access and isn't excluded for economic or political reasons. For example there have been complaints about Mumsnet being geared for women (even though it's open to men) but dads are at complete liberty to set up their own website and I'm sure there are quite a few. On the other hand, in terms of the old working men's clubs, when they were established women simply didn't have the money, legal power or freedom to set their own up. Which made the whole thing hugely unfair.

In this case though I agree with Eclectic. The fact that the women feel uncomfortable around men and welcome the freedom to socialise uncovered is the underlying problem and where the solution lays. It's a bit like ladies' gyms. Women shouldn't feel uncomfortable showing their wobbly bits to men, but quite a few do...

It's a bit chicken and egg that one messy!

About the gym and the wobbly bits - maybe women feel uncomfortable because past life experiences have made them that way IYSWIM.

IDSWYM

Interestingly at the gym, there is a "power" room, full of weights and other "manly" apparatus. It's not technically closed to women but in reality no woman goes near it. The idea of lickle weedy me going in there fills me with fear ! I see it as a good analogy to RL sexual politics IYSWIM

HA! Yes! I remember going with a friend to look at a local gym about 20 years ago - she had come back from overseas and wanted to join one - and on the way she said "if it's full of men with those funny little belts on then I'm not joining" and we walked in and the man on the desk had a funny little belt on and in the gym it was just loads of belted men grunting and sweating.

My friend decided quite quickly it was not the place for her!

Sad fact is that many places looking back have been men only just because they are. That is changing very slowly. But I think that's what some blokes don't realise is that women were effectively barred from lots of things - there didn't need to be an official ban - it's just how it was.

I must go and sit in a pub by myself soon and see if things have improved there

I must go and sit in a pub by myself soon and see if things have improved there

this is something I've never felt comfortable doing.

I get that there's a real demand for this in the area, but it is really truly illegal.

From a feminist POV it's a toughy, like bans on veils. I think that anything that reinforces the caring for children=women's work only rule is a bad thing, but in practice, in the short term, while we wait for the patriarchy to be overthrown in the local community, it would make many local women's lives a bit easier.

I'm coming down on the side of the law here.

You can't equate a gym or pub with a soft play. It really saddens me that people think it's acceptable to bar one gender from an establishment. It's ridiculous. Can you not see how silly and discrimatory it is. Women need to stop hiding and adapting their behaviour because of perceived inequality and just get on with it rather than actually making inequality in their favour.

Yes I think that is a very normal / standard feeling.

I bet there are loads if we set our minds to it!

I did sit in pubs by myself - waiting for others usually - and it was fine BUT for some reason the males in the pub would imagine that woman in pub by self = gagging to talk to ME!!! And it was very annoying.

Taking a newspaper or book helps. Not that I go out any more these days

Eclectic are people on the thread supporting the actions of this soft play place? Vast majority / all seem to be saying they don't like it.

If these women stopped acting like victims in this specific scenario it would be more beneficial. It's so backward it's unbelievable and yet the same people who support this ban want women to be treated equally.

I'm just sickened that this has happened. It's not much different to saying whites only.

The whole segregation thing just makes my blood boil... As you can probably tell :)

It seems to have been a business decision based on what people want, I guess.

It wouldn't even get mooted around here.

I suppose the culture has to be changed first? If there are women who, say, aren't allowed to go to places where there might be men, then this would be good for them. I imagine that's why it was done. There was a demand.

Certainly there are currently women only and men only sessions at all sorts of things and that is no problem.

I am sure that women in these communities have access to women only spaces elsewhere. Give it a couple of generations and there will not be this requirement any more I reckon. UK is good at that sort of thing!

Eclectic I totally get that it makes your blood boil. And from a black and white point of view you are 100% right. But if forcing women to mix with men meant that women stayed at home, would you just say "tough luck" or would you be sympathetic to the fact that these women were just acting according to the social customs that they have been brought up with, and so genuinely cannot stop themselves from feeling "uncomfortable" in a mixed situation.

I'm betting on the "tough luck">

we should join hands with f4j and protest outside the playcentre

messy " Women shouldn't feel uncomfortable showing their wobbly bits to men, but quite a few do..."

so there is a correct way for people to feel now? and it is ok to invalidate the feelings of someone who doesnt agree with you.

in my community too we have a lot of mums and kids events, the childrens centres and stuff have tried very hard to get dads involved and had dads and kids events, DADI days etc, but hasnt been very successful.

imo we should be encouraging fathers to spend more time doing activities with the kids in environments such as this, and I really dont see why womens only sessions wouldnt be ok?

"so there is a correct way for people to feel now? and it is ok to invalidate the feelings of someone who doesnt agree with you."

Hold up Nailik! A tad dramatic don't you think? Everything I express in my posts is a huge IMO and I haven't sought to invalidate anyone's feelings. In fact if you read my last post to Eclectic you'll see that I'm striving to accommodate views that I don't necessarily hold myself.

I understand the concepts behind segregation of the sexes in public places. It's just I don't believe (IMO IMO IMO) that it's the right way to go. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just that I don't agree with it because in this instance it's unfair to men & older boys and denies them access to something they might benefit from.

I don't believe that the women involved are casting men as sexual predators as one poster hyperbolically suggested and I understand that they just want to feel comfortable. I also understand what it's like to be denied access to social stuff on the basis of your gender. However innocuous the given reason is it still doesn't feel nice. Now I don't know if there are any men who have effectively been excluded by this law (maybe it is just usual media anti-multiculturalist spin) but if they do exist and they are just nice dads just wanting to take their kids out, then my sympathy is with them. I mean have any dads complained about this? I don't know. Also what about the mums with older children? Not enough is known about this particular situation.

On a wider note, you last paragraph seems to imply that you believe in dads only spaces, is that correct? Maybe a good idea is to have both. Dads only, mums only and then mixed. That way everyone's happy and men and women can enjoy mixing together.

nailak, the issue is that this particular soft play centre has no sessions where dads or boys over the age of 9 are allowed.

Fathers who might want to take their children to a soft play centre and do activities with them are barred completely. It's actively discouraging fathers from doing this kind of activity with their kids.

Someone up thread said that a lot of people think it's okay because it's mostly mums are looking after kids while dads in work - if this place had made womens only sessions on most of Mon-Fri, but allowed fathers in with their kids at weekends, then the soft play centre probably wouldn't have even made the news in the first place.

God, this is my worst nightmare. A blanket excuse for men to avoid the hell that is soft play. Why couldn't they have made it men only????

Seriously though, I don't like it. I hate the whole idea of enforced segregation and, whilst I realise this is a private busines and, if it doesn't breach equalities legislation for whatever reason, can do what it likes, its existence makes me uncomfortable. As a country, we should be trying to encourage people of all cultures and religions to move away from outdated ideas about segregation of the sexes and this sort of thing doesn't help.

To be honest, I don't much like women-only gyms and swimming sessions for the same reasons, but I do realise that if they didn't exist, for some women the wobbly bits they don't want to display would just get wobblier and wobblier. I don't think the same applies in soft play though (not in my experience anyway).

just to say, the people mentioning about dads are barred and so cant take their children to soft play, there are loads of softplay things in birmingham so not that this one was their only option??

its not quite the same as gym where youre uncovered etc but some women are saying they dont feel comfy climbing up in the play frame with their kids and that kind of thing, with men around.. so its a similar thing but to lesser extent

but i agree with whoever said mon-fri womens only and some mixed sessions on weekends could have been a good comprimise

"some women are saying they dont feel comfy climbing up in the play frame with their kids and that kind of thing, with men around.."

It's all relative isn't it? I mean I read that and I think "what's the problem?" but then I shudder at the thought of an internal exam by a male doctor.

I don't know the answer

But, firawla why not? I'm sorry but I really just don't get why women don't feel comfortable with men around in an everyday situation like soft play. We share this planet - we have to learn to co-exist in these sorts of places or we are going to end up in a sitaution where men and women do everything separately. I am sure there are plenty of mixed soft play options in Birmingham but in those families where women don't feel comfortable with men around, the women are going to head for the women-only one and become gradually more segregated, as will their daughters and sons and so on, and that is the worst part I think. What would be nice would be for children to grow up with fewer hang ups about not being able to be in the same places, not more.

Also, I think you see what you look for, a lot of the time. When I have been to soft play both the men and the women have largely been too concerned with clambering after their own toddlers to spend much time ogling each other or even noticing each other apart from to say excuse me when they pass (or to separate two bickering children after the same piece of equipment). It is inherently self-obsessed and, frankly, a bit arrogant to assume that the men around you are interested or have even noticed you. And if they have, so what, unless they hassle you which would, of course, be wildly inappropriate in any situation?

But there again, segregation really irritates me - clearly it doesn't everyone.

What about single sex schools? Despite the fact that girls do better in them, should they be banned? Genuine question btw. I am on fence.