Having a sex preference for your baby

[WannabeEarthMomma]

I'm not a mum (not started ttc yet!) but I'm interested in discussing how others feel about having a preference for a certain sex when having a baby.

I was a tomboy as a kid (my mum indulged my preference for short hair and trousers and assumed that I was gay), and although I'm more in touch with my inner diva these days, I continue to not give a monkeys about conforming to some ideal of womanhood. I think it's good to teach kids about gender roles but let them know that it's fine to not always conform to them if they don't want to. I also think that having a sex preference for your unborn is kind of daft because your choice doesn't decide the outcome anyway! Unless you have a doctor intervene in a way that is possibly illegal(?) then it's up to Mother Nature what you actually get, and whatever your preference, you've a 50% chance of being disappointed. Also, continuing to procreate more than you originally meant to, just in order to get the other sex, seems very unfair on your family, surely it's better to decide on how many children you'd like, regardless of their sex?

Nevertheless, I have found myself reading about natural sex selection theories, (which I think are at best, a long-shot) and thinking that if it were actually possible, I'd probably choose to have a boy! I'm a terrible traitor to the entire world of feminists/lgbt/gender-non-conformists! It's completely stupid because how on Earth would I know that the prodigal son would be anything like I expected him to be. I might sit down to play Legos with him and he might be more interested in Barbie!!!

Joking aside, I do genuinely have this mental image of me as a doting mum of an adult son that makes me go all gooey. Legends of the Fall is one of my fave soppy films to watch because of the 3 very good-looking brothers (one of them is Brad Pitt ) and the thought of having some mummy's boys in my home seems lovely to me. Even though I'd know I'd be happy to have children of any variety, I can't help feeling like I'd be more happy to hear 'it's a boy!'

Do/did you have a sex preference for your unborn offspring? Do you think it is natural to have a certain preference, perhaps for some Freudian psychological reason? Or am I simply a red-blooded heterosexual who has seen too many male-dominated romantic movies, and I'm putting males onto a pedestal?

[HedyLamaar]

peanutMD

Yes, I do. As I said in my first post. A son and a daughter.

[HedyLamaar]

PeanutMD, this is the feminist section. As a general rule, it's not the done thing to blame women for being victims of abuse here.

Actually, scratch that. It's not the done thing to blame women for being victims of abuse anywhere.

[peanutMD]

Aa parent do you tell your son he eill be an oppressor and you're daughter that she will be a victim?

I don't mean to sound aggressive but this is a rediculous concept to me. My brother and my partner won't walk home alone does that make them victims too?

[peanutMD]

When did I blame anyone for abuse??

[peanutMD]

Okay have just re read comments I do apologise for my dodgy wording.

I meant given the fact that you think males will automatically oppress eomen due to gender, would you assume that awoman will be oppressed (abused was wrong word)

Sorry for offence.

[HedyLamaar]

Yes. They fear they will be victims of male violence. Let's name the problem, eh Peanut. It is men who are the class which abuse and rape. Just because your brother and partner are part of that group, doesn't mean that they can't also be victims of it.

[VegansTasteBetter]

Hedy, I am torn by your post.

I desperately wanted a daughter in my first pregnancy then when I found out I would be having one I had a crisis because I knew I was bring female in to a world that WOULD abuse her.

When I found out in my second pregnancy I was having a boy I was disappointed because I (still) preferred a girl. But I rejoiced that I could raise a "good one".

My son will not abuse women. And he will not be a misogynistic asshole just because he is a male. Being born in to a oppressive class does not make him an oppressor. I will raise him to know what is right and what is wrong.

I was born white. I was raised in a family where race didn't mean anything and my 9 aunts and uncles, god know how many cousins (on both sides) were varying shades of black/white. I was probably in middle school before I realized this was unusual and it was only because it was explained then that actually my cousins and I had different grandfathers. And that my grandfathers weren't biologically my grandfathers. I was born in to an oppressive class but I am not an oppressor and I am not a racist, anyone who said I was would be laughed at by anyone who knows me.

I think it is very said you have this view that you can't raise your son well. Men are not genetically designed to be bastards.

[HedyLamaar]

No-one lives in a bubble. Including your son, veganstastebetter. You say you "will raise him to know what is right and what is wrong" -how? What s your failsafe method?

Are you going to keep him away from all his peers? Advertising? The internet? Porn?

I don't think I can't raise my son well. I am realistic about my effort producing a man who is "not an oppressor". It his my hope that he will be aware of his privilege and he will try to give some of it up where he can.

I agree, men are not "genetically desined to be bastards", I think that men grow up in a society that privileges them and encourages them to behave in way which which oppress women.

"I was raised in a family where race didn't mean anything"
That's a fairly problematic statement in terms of racism. How do you think an Afro-Caribbean woman might feel about you - a white woman - asserting that race has no meaning? I'd wager that it has a great deal of meaning to her.

Analysis of oppression (both in terms of how we are oppressed and oppress, and how our loved ones are oppressed and oppressed) is hard and uncomfortable. Simply saying "I ain't sexist or racist and nor will my kids be" simply doesn't cut it, sorry.

[VegansTasteBetter]

It had no meaning in my family. I am talking about the way you raise children. I obviously understand that a black woman will have further and greater disadvantages then my self as an adult but I believe my upbringing made me the kind of person who would not be responsible for those disadvantages.

Simply saying "I ain't sexist or racist and nor will my kids be" simply doesn't cut it, sorry.

it does. and i'm not. Are you white? Are you racist? Do you oppress others?

[WannabeEarthMomma]

It really never occurred to me to fear that my hypothetical son would grow up to be a rapist or a misogynist, or that I would fear my hypothetical daughter would grow up to be raped or downtrodden. That seems like a very negative view of your own children and your own ability to teach them to be good people. I thought I would meet more feminists in this discussion, but there seem to be a lot of women here who are determined to see boys as mean and girls as fragile. Aren't many boys also sensitive and capable of being abused or downtrodden by society? Aren't many girls also capable of violence?

My own unusual identity was formed under a childish misunderstanding, that being male is better than being female, because males are more often judged by their strength and cleverness rather than things that seemed trivial to me, such as by their appearance or their demure behaviour. But now as an adult I can see the perks of being female, and I'm glad to be one. There is still and probably always will be generally accepted gender roles, but women's lives here and now, are better than they've ever been in the past. Of course horrible things still happen to women - but don't try and say that all men have an easier life.

I think some people may have missed the point of the conversation, which originally was, that we ideally ought not to have a preference, but that perhaps it is normal to have one. And not always because we accept gender norms, but because of natural or conditioned instincts?

[VegansTasteBetter]

I think some people may have missed the point of the conversation, which originally was, that we ideally ought not to have a preference, but that perhaps it is normal to have one. And not always because we accept gender norms, but because of natural or conditioned instincts?

I did actualy as to the op,
I wanted a girl because I wanted her to be awesome and be the first female president (which she can't be because as it turns out because she was born in England.. but hell.. the second female prime minister isn't a bad consulation prize

[SardineQueen]

Hedy I agree with your posts.

[BelleCurve]

Wannabe - the issue is one of structural privilege, not saying that all men have an easier life than all women.

finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/

Plus the fact that you view male traits as being strong, clever and more important and female traits as being demure, involved with their appearance and trival means that you are very much bought into the patriarchal expression of gender roles.

If you believe that by not conforming with these feminine roles, you will somehow gain a slight advantage over other women who do think about these "trivial" things, you are essentially siding with the patriarchy (and I should know, I did it for years)

[HedyLamaar]

"It really never occurred to me to fear that my hypothetical son would grow up to be a rapist or a misogynist, or that I would fear my hypothetical daughter would grow up to be raped or downtrodden."

Why on earth not? Why are you so sure that your as yet unconceived daughter is one of the three out of four women who are not sexually assaulted? Please, do share your plans for how you will effect this magic bullet for her, I'd love it for my own daughter. By the same token, unless you think that there is this tiny group of about twenty Very Bad Men who are doing all this assauting (that's one in four women, remember, they must never sleep) then who do you think is responsible? Men who are womens' sons.

"That seems like a very negative view of your own children and your own ability to teach them to be good people."
It is a realistic assessment of structural oppression and is a way of addressing the issue rather than pretending that I can put my precious baby boy in a little bubble where he is unaffected by anything other than that which I teach him.

"there seem to be a lot of women here who are determined to see boys as mean and girls as fragile. Aren't many boys also sensitive and capable of being abused or downtrodden by society? Aren't many girls also capable of violence?"
Oh please. This is about looking at what men as a class do to women as a class. Surely you can see that?


"I think some people may have missed the point of the conversation, which originally was, that we ideally ought not to have a preference, but that perhaps it is normal to have one. And not always because we accept gender norms, but because of natural or conditioned instincts?"
I didn't miss the point. I just thought that the point was so staggeringly wrong that I couldn't not point it out. And if you are saying that men rape us because it is natural so we ought to just suck it up and STF about it...well, I'm a member of a revolutionary movement that calls this bullshit and says that we can and should fight for something better. Why not join us?

"I thought I would meet more feminists in this discussion"
Hey, snap! I have no idea what's going on in this section at the moment, but a lot of it isn't what I'd describe as feminism.

[HedyLamaar]

veganstastebetter

That's your answer? Really? 'I'm not sexist and I'll raise my son not to be too'?

Ok. Please tell me how you plan to do this.

Because, y'know, he lives in a world which actively teaches him that hating women is ok - how are you going to counter this?

[EclecticShock]

Agree wannabe

[VegansTasteBetter]

People raise misogynists. I believe that to the case. So obviously I believe I can not raise one if I choose to.

I think it is sad that you have such a bleak view for your son tbh and I hope he doesn't pick up on your feelings I really do. Growing up with a mother who feels you can't help but grow to be a wrong'un is going to result in self fulfilling prophesy.

[EclecticShock]

You can't control any of your children's decisions in the future. All you can do is try your hardest to educate them. Unfortunately, not everyone educates their children about equality. I wish they did. I really will try to educate my son or any children I have, about equality but there is only so much you can do.

[miloben]

AMumInScotland...I do see how that looks, but all I was trying to do was emphasise my love for my daughter. NOT at the expense of my son, however. I was SOOOOO unhappy that people would cast judgement on my love for my son that I was crying all day...I LOVE my little boy. But I am acutely aware of how baby girls are treated in this world (thanks to this site) that I think I over compensate and zoom in on her sometimes. But I certainly love my little boy. He's my angel.

I am very sorry for being a prick yesterday.

[BelleCurve]

Oh yes, let's blame the mothers

[patosullivan]

I kind of agree with HedyLamaar.

While it's wrong to say that all men will oppress and abuse women and behave like misogynist arseholes, I don't think it's realistic to ignore the facts about the society we live in.

Men are more privileged than women. Sure, times have moved on and the situation has improved, but men still have more power and more opportunities than women.

Women are more likely to be victims of rape and abuse than men. And men are more likely to be perpetrators of violence than women.

Ignoring this isn't going to help anyone to raise sons as caring decent men, or daughters as capable women ready to forge their way in the world.

[HedyLamaar]

Thinking that the bad stuff happens to other peoples' daughters and is perpetrated by other peoples' sons is just plain foolish.

If we're feminists then we are looking to name the perpetrators of our oppression, and the perpetrators are men.

So the question really is, how do we - as the mothers of sons - go some way to counter the huge, huge, huge pressures and expectations they recieve about their attitudes and behaviours?

That would be a good conversation to have here, I think. Veganstastebetter - what are your thoughts on this?

[Yama]

I also agree with HedyLamaar.

Raising children to see the world clearly for what it is surely must be a good first step. Dh and I speak with our dd about feminism. We'll do the same with ds once he's old enough.

Already though, ds idolises his big sister and everything she is interested in is 'good'. No one in our extended family would be allowed to comment on him playing with any 'girl' toy. Ach, I'm not articulating it well but we actively promote girl = good to our young son.

We are always mindful.

[WinkyWinkola]

On a different note, I'm really troubled by my preference. I always always wanted boys but the behaviour of my ds1 continually freaks me out.

I have a dd and ds2. I cried when I found out ds2 was a boy because I was terrified he would be the same as ds1. He's not of course.

Am pg with what I believe to be ds3. Would rather he was dd2 because of my silly fear that my boys will all be the same as ds1 but I'm getting past that.

I feel ashamed about it but have felt so lost and desperate with my first ds.