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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Families tsar blames mums for Broken Britain

26 replies

alexpolismum · 21/07/2012 11:58

it's all your fault, mums! as usual

OP posts:
alexpolismum · 21/07/2012 12:03

Sorry, I didn't realise there was already a thread on this in the News section.

here

Still, I think it's worth pointing out that these women are not getting pregnant by themselves - she is not saying "Abusive men, stop taking advantage of these vulnerable women" or "men, take responsibility for the children you father" but "women, stop getting pregnant".

OP posts:
itsthequietones · 21/07/2012 14:04

Always interesting to know how those running the country view the vulnerable Shock. Whatever you do, don't read the comments.

carernotasaint · 21/07/2012 16:58

Some of the comments from some MNers on the news board are astounding.

samandi · 21/07/2012 20:23

I think she has a point.

PenisVanLesbian · 21/07/2012 20:28

thats not what she said though, is it? Or even remotely that. But sure why let the truth get in the way of an good emotive thread title, and the bunfight you were no doubt trying to provoke?

SardineQueen · 21/07/2012 20:33

"Mothers from problem families should feel "ashamed" of how they are damaging society and should stop getting pregnant, according to a senior government adviser."

Seems pretty much like she's blaming mums to me.

FrancesFarmer · 21/07/2012 20:38

She is targeting the mothers because it is easier to convince them to be more choosy before having children than it is to make deadbeat men into good fathers.

It's a tricky issue to deal with - some people should not be having children because they can't raise them properly but it's hard to say anything about it without sounding like a eugenicist.

Rock and a hard place.

SardineQueen · 21/07/2012 20:39

She's not trying to convince anyone of anything.
She is simply blaming mothers for all of societies ills. Standard tory practice.

SardineQueen · 21/07/2012 20:40

Like nadine dorries wanting to teach abstinence in schools, but only to girls.
This stuff all comes from the same place.

MildewMayhew · 21/07/2012 20:50

Read the comments, off to bleach eyes.

I know a few families reliant on benefits. I'm in one of them. It's not our aim in life, and I've yet to meet one parent who is happy to live on benefits.

Whatever mothers do, however, they're vilified at every turn. Mums stayin at home to look after kids? "Spongers". Mums who head out to work? "Neglecting their kids"

Fathers, however, are hero worshipped whatever choice they make. When my brother became a SAHP for a short while, my sister in law was inundated with "Ooooh, ain't he good" comments for a good few weeks. When she became a SAHP shortly after having my nephew, she was told she couldn't moan about anything, as she was at home, my brother was out working, etc. When she decided to return to work when her son was 9 months old? Greeted with "Oh, but you really should stay-at-home. It's not fair on him".

Can't win

PenisVanLesbian · 21/07/2012 21:01

Not sure why you are personalising it so much, unless you have 9 children by multiple fathers, who never go to school and have asbo's. Since that is who she is talking about.
Don't know about you, but I would feel quite ashamed if that described me.

Still if you prefer to bizarrely surmise that this is an attack on all mothers, go right ahead, martyr away.

StewieGriffinsMom · 21/07/2012 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2012 21:12

It's massively victim blaming as well as woman blaming - people who live chaotic lives like this have often had abusive/neglectful childhoods themselves, and the comment in the article/thread (I just read the thread, at work earlier) about "having child after child with different, often abusive men" ... and what, they think that they choose this? I don't really understand why people think it's okay or even logical to say "Just stop sleeping with abusers" like women are happily choosing it. It ignores everything we know about why women stay in or return to relationships with abusers, to just say "Don't be with them then". Do people think if it was that simple, these women would still be there? That's MASSIVELY insulting.

EclecticShock · 21/07/2012 21:20

I agree with her to an extent. Women need to take control of their fertility as do men. Pregnancy in this country is not something forced upon you in these circumstances discussed... 9 children by different partners who are abusive.

Everyone needs to take responsibility not just women and not just men, but die gods sake someone stop acting the victim and take responsibility.

EclecticShock · 21/07/2012 21:23

War on women? What rubbish. We are not passive objects we have a choice, it's about time we were educated about that choice and act responsibly in these scenarios. I hate all this... Poor women not their fault...it is the responsibility of both parents, equally. You can't shirk responsibility because you're a woman.

gatheringlilac · 21/07/2012 22:13

As has been said on the other thread, the whole thing is anecdote, not evidence. That means that the target(s) of the article are some nebulous group, that people all have a slightly loose idea about.

If it were evidential, and each of these supposed problem families and problem mothers were examined in detail, it would almost certainly emerge that there are complex factors leading to their situations. the "problems" of these problem families would emerge as similarly complex, and expensive to put right.

So much easier to just suggest a benefit cap. Or other bizarre, punitive measures.

For what it's worth, I think there is a strange and unpleasant discourse about the increased privatisation of parenting emerging, which permits the withdrawal of state aid to those parents, and children, experiencing difficulties.

The corollary of the anecdotal nature of this article is that the nebulous figure of the "problem mother" is so fuzzy it necessarily becomes relevant to all mothers, in some sense, and probably all women. We are all either included in this, or set in some position in opposition to it.

Further, the article's focus on women, to the exclusion of men, makes it an anti-woman article. Even if we try and take the sting out of it, distance ourselves from this fact, by saying it only has "some women", "bad women", "problem women" in its sights.

Just i.m.o.

EclecticShock · 21/07/2012 22:17

Good post gathering.

KRITIQ · 21/07/2012 22:30

I remember when Louise Casey had integrity. I honestly don't know what happened.

Akermanis · 21/07/2012 22:53

Feckless fathers have been targeted by Mr. Cameron in a similar fashion, if memory serves me right he choose Fathers day 2010 to start the campaign.

lastnerve · 22/07/2012 08:48

Yes lets blame the women left holding the babies who do all the hard work arrrghh! give me strength.

lastnerve · 22/07/2012 08:51

However 9 children by different men is insane and indicates deeper problems. But that would go onto the murky territory of enforced contraception.

solidgoldbrass · 22/07/2012 11:36

Let's not forget that women are constantly being told that they need A Man In Their Lives, and that having His baby is a way to prove love and cement a relationship. So the women who have several children by different men are usually doing so in a sense of hope and optimisim - this man will stay and be a good father. Only, if you have been repeatedly abused by partners, you tend to pick (or be preyed on by) one abuser after another; abusers have an instinct for the vulnerable.
There should definitely be a lot more focus on changing men's behaviour. Men, stop being arseholes. Stop abusing your partners to the point where they have to throw you out of the house and keep you away with court orders. Stop impregnating women and running off: if you don't want to be a father use a condom, have a vasectomy or avoid PIV. Stop skiving your share of the domestic work.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 22/07/2012 12:07

Yes Akermanis and what has he done about it? Fuck all. In fact, the reverse, he has set in motion reform of the CPS that will mean resident parents (nearly all of them mothers) having to pay if they want the CPS to track down their absent and feckless exes (nearly all of them fathers).

In other words if you impregnate a woman and then leave, you don't have to pay anything unless the woman - already having to support herself and your child(ren) - can scrape together enough extra money to send someone after you. It's totally fine. Hmm

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 22/07/2012 12:08

CSA, not CPS

Akermanis · 22/07/2012 20:51

solidgoldbrass I think a lot of people need to be more careful in their selection of partner especially if they are thinking of having children.

Elephants I agree, It's a disgraceful policy, wish all parents could sort it out amongst themselves but that wont happen sadly.