Self-deprecation

[BelleCurve]

I hate this, I hate that women are socialised to be self-deprecating all the time that if you aren't, you are arrogant.

I hate that if I compliment a friend, she automatically reacts with "no, I'm not", "what this old thing" etc

I hate the competitive body hatred thing in the ladies loos.

I hate that we are always told to "big up" our acheivements in the workplace to compete with the menz, but it is a no-win situation cos nice girls would never do that.

I hate that my female colleague starts every conversation with "sorry, but"

Thanks, I feel better getting that out!

Yes, once you notice how we've been conditioned in to appeasing behaviour it makes you want to be a total arsehole in retaliation

Here here.

I try to accept any minor compliment with "thanks, yes, I love [this necklace]" rather than "oh, I only got it from Primark, it's really cheap". I still have to stop myself saying the latter rather than the former too!

Nowt wrong with us

I always think that the world would be a kinder a better place if we socialised men to have more humility and modesty.

I think it's a personality rather than a man/woman thing.

I think it is also linked to culture - particularly British culture. I find both men and women here more likely to be self-deprecating than Americans are (that's where I grew up.)

I'm not saying it's a good thing to be over-confident or assertive-bordering-on-aggressive. However, I think there is something in the culture of the UK at least that encourages people (starting in childhood) to be modest. However, that often drifts over into putting children down for appearing too proud or confident. I think because girls are conditioned generally to be more quiet, passive and think of the interests of others before their own, it ends up being a double whammy to the development of their self-esteem.

I remember some years ago going to a work related seminar thingie that I thought was about time management, but ended up being a bit more about "life management." There were about half a dozen other women in the group, ranging in age from early 20's to late 50's, in jobs from admin to management. Two were from minority ethnic communities, but all had grown up in the UK.

What struck me was story after story they told of incidents in childhood where they were made to feel bad or guilty about "getting above their station," or "blowing their own trumpet," and they'd absorbed the message that being confident and feeling good about yourself and what you achieve = bad. I've also heard stories from British and Irish men of similar experiences, but in a somewhat different context related to their gender (i.e. It was okay to boast about certain "manly" things, but more for the purpose of competing with other men than about feeling genuine pleasure in one's achievements.)

So, just wanted to suggest that it can be cultural as well as gender-linked, imho.

Yes, culture plays a role.

I am so glad I'm not the only one.

I really struggle with this. It's 20-plus years of being with my abusive ex in my case.

Even when DP pays me a compliment it makes me really uncomfortable.

t's a bonding thing really.

You check how well other people fit in to the group, ie how well they've been socialised.

Saying that, I agree with Mini in that a bit of modesty and humility are good things, which more people should demonstrate. Same goes for a lot of other 'feminine' qualities too.

We are often too keen to adopt what could be perceived as male behaviours? Pitty we can't seem to bring up boys to be less boasting and competitive. It certainly wasn't women waging war, mining foreign lands, enslaving people and finally setting up banks that rip off everyone else.

Competition between men after all, is what has brought us to this place.

Testosterone is a natural contributor to competitiveness. Eco psych...

There are a lot of factors that influence our negative sides, as individuals and in groups. But we generally find ways to constrain them, or at least acknowledge that we should try.

i love that i can read people so i know when to play the 'sorry but' card and go with the ' i need you to..' card.

i know that i have to play things differently from men becuase it is a paternalist centred capilatist world - but i think i have some great tools at my disposal.

i abhor this conversation

' oh i like your top'
'it was only 5p on ebay this old thing'

the best thing to say is
'thank you'

you were given a fucking compliment - take it mother fuckers

I have to say that my career rocketed when I learned to do this:

Hear a compliment
Say 'thank you, I'm glad you felt that made a difference/was a good contribution/ helped sort out the situation, etc.'
Made a note or a copy.
Showed / told my boss at my next appraisal.

I had to practice this. It did not come easily. But it led to 2 promotions in 2 years...

Someone taught me (during the year I left school) to accept a compliment as you would accept a present: gracefully.

And accept praise as you would accept a reward for your work: be grateful, and be specific.
So "You look lovely, Currants, Great top!"
"Thanks! Glad you like it! (and if I know the person well something like "It's machine washable- great for having toddler DS!" or something).

But "Great work in that meeting, Currants, you definitely got our budget message across"
gets something like "I'm so glad that I was able to help our team do X specific thing which I will then take some credit for, having solidified in your mind that you think I did it well."

Also, I think Evo Psych is bollocks, and will go the way of eugenics/phrenology/whatever, in time. But that's a bit of a tangent.

blackcurrants - i have also learnt to accept compliments gracefully - I have sod all self confidence but on the other hand people compliment you to be nice in the same way they would give you a gift to be nice so actually in some way it's a bit rude to dismiss a compliment (although if someone compliments my handbags I do say thanks but also tell them the bloke got them off ebay really cheap but that's just to let them know they too can have a pretty and cheap bag!)
I have lost a bit of weight recently, enough to be noticable but still fat (from 22 to 16-18) and I find it very difficult to accept compliments on that (I just feel bad I let myself get so big in the first place so being 'just big' rather than huge is not something i am wanting to be proud of) but I still try to be gracious and thank them for the compliment and divert them to the increased fitness of which I am quite proud!
I kind of feel that being too self-deprecating is attention-seeking in itself -
x - 'you're so pretty'
y - 'no, i'm not, i have a big fat arse'
x - 'no, your arse is lovely and shapely'
y - 'yeah but my hair is horrible'
x - 'your hair is great'.... and so on

That's a good idea to be specific, currants. I tend to say a straight thank you and nothing else - but usually with some diffidence!

That's really interesting wilson. Do you think that men would tend to already use that technique?

I'm trying to stop giving compliments about weight-loss because I think they're a bit of a two-edged sword - I think the stigma and discrimination against fat people is a problem, and even the nicest compliment about weight-loss can reinforce the idea that thin is better than fat. It's tricky though, it sometimes feels mean not to compliment someone who's worked really hard at weight-loss.

I used to be so incredibly insecure (and still am at times) where I thought that people making compliments must be secretly taking the piss. E.g.
"That top looks great on you" must have an unspoken "for a fatty" or similar on the end . :(

Totally get the the OP is coming from WRT to the colleague who prefaces her opinions with "sorry, but." It's infuriating!

MMMarmite, I loathe comments about weight loss. I speak as someone who's big but would like to be smaller and sometimes yo-yos a bit. A compliment about weight loss for me would be as painful as a direct criticism.

I used to get told, every autumn, that I looked like I'd lost weight over the summer. I hadn't; often I'd put on a little weight (I worked in a college so didn't see the students for about 3m) - and it started to make me wonder how big they perceived me as! Which was a pity, because mostly I had learned to take compliments gracefully and be accepting of the way I look.

I used to be really self-deprecating, and suffered from Impostor syndrome in my work - took a lot of effort (and in fact some counselling, mostly for other low self-esteem issues) to get over that.

Kritiq, I think it's a very good point that the Brits are very good at running themselves down and any hint of pomposity or trumpet-blowing is immediately shot down.

I think it's also linked to class. Someone who is comfortable in their middle classness is almost PROUD of buying something out of Primark - look, I'm so normal and bargain-huntery.

As a bargain-loving Scot there is nothing I love more than someone saying "I like your top" and me saying "IT WAS A POUND". It's not self-deprecation for me, it's pure unadulterated joy that not only do I have a new and lovely thing but I only had to work for 5 minutes or whatever to buy it.

In other ways though, yes, I am way too self-deprecating and receiving compliments is very uncomfortable for me. For some reason, much more so about achievements, personal attributes and such than my appearance. I feel fine being told I look nice, have nice hair and so on. "You did a great job" or something sits horribly with me.

Agreed, when I say " I got it for a quid on ebay" I mean "aren't I a great bargain hunter".

Someone mentioned Americans and I would say the same for Australian women. Much better at accepting a compliment in the spirit it was given. I think it would be much more unusual to hear the self deprecating thing from them.

It really annoys me though. Put yourself down constantly and then wonder why people don't value you...