Surnames - is this a step forward or the state taking on the role of domineering husband?

[TouTou]

Just interested in your thoughts really. As feminists, like. ()

I moved to Quebec and have been forced (yes, literally forced) to take back my maiden name. I am not allowed to take on my DHs name (which I've had for several years,) in the interest of 'equality'.

I consider myself a feminist. It took my 10 years for me to finally marry DH and after that I kept my own name for 3 years.

When we had DCs I wanted the same name as them, (I've worked in healthcare and have seen several times problems with obtaining consent caused by family members having different names). My DH, again, felt really strongly that he wanted them to have his name as he is the only son of an only son (ie, the last of his name) and I have siblings to carry on my name. Also, he is very attached to his family and I don't really respect my Dfather, so again, not didn't feel as passionately about it as he did. It took me a while and much chin stroking, but in the end we all became 'The TouTous'.

In other words, I wasn't forced into having his name, but came about taking it through long consideration.

But, because Quebec is very much an 'equal' province, women are not allowed to do this. And because DCs still seem to take on the fathers name (just shows you can't grow equailty in a day), most of the DCs have different names to their mums.
I'm pissed off about having a different name from my DCs (again, it causes problems at border crossings with the USA etc) and the state having a paternalistic attitude that women are so put upon that government should tell them what is best for them.

What are your thoughts on this?

There are people on the thread who did keep their own name and even some who have their DC their name. I can't help that feel that their feminist credentials are better than mine because of it and that I am a hypocrite who doesn't practice what she preaches and almost everyone I have dealings with must be indirectly informed of this.

Leftwing I don't think it makes you a hypocrite at all, there's no such thing as 'feminist credentials' in my opinion, and we all have our reasons for the decisions we make about things like names.

It's a shame if you're regretting your choice now, of course (I guess it would be difficult to change back now as there'd be the issue of the children's names?). But honestly I doubt the people you meet are thinking what you imagine when they hear your name, most likely the majority of people don't give it a second thought.

Ok, have worked out system! Everyone has double-barrelled: "mumsname-dadname" then when a couple gets married they have a selection of four names to choose from to make the most attractive double-barrelled name for themselves and their DC. There most definitely will be an app for that!

Everyone's happy

Messy I think there might quickly develop a convention from a free choice starting point but we could give it a try!

I should clarify I only entertain these concerns when I am arguing some point of principle with someone who knows I became Mrs DH name. I don't regret it any more or less than I expected to. Perhaps I will regret it less once actual DC arrive.

messy they aren't though!

DH name was his parents names double-barrelled.
To only pick one, and combine it with mine instead, would have really upset whichever of his parents got theirs "dropped".
All of this sort of thing is very complicated, TBH, and many of the older generation are more than happy to kick up a stink about this sort of stuff.

We really need to get society away from the idea that names are important. I don't feel mine is, TBH. OTOH DH feels very strongly about his family name, both sides, and I don't know if you are ever going to get away from people feeling like that?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I personally don't really give a monkeys, but an awful lot of people do, and changing their minds is going to be a hell of a job.

Me and dh are married, didn't have rings (I have a ring, but not wedding, now) and have our own names.

You'd think we had fifteen heads from the reactions.

Snap Hully.

I wear an "engagement" ring now (though we didn't get it till 2 years after we got married, 3 years after we got "engaged"). No wedding ring. My wedding ring for the ceremony was my "something borrowed".

Now I feel even worse!

or you could jus tsuit yourself leftwing..

Leftwing I didn't realise until your last post that you don't actually have children yet (or maybe you're pregnant?) Have you talked to your husband about the naming issue, and does he realise how much it matters to you? Because it does seem to really bother you, and maybe there's some possibility of a compromise?

Ha ha don't be so radical!

It would take one hell of an acrimonious divorce to motivate me to go through the hellish process of changing my name again. It's clearly not a tradition which is suited to modern life, I'm sure it was all very well back in the day where there was only the bank and the postman to notify!

There are plenty of legitimate and valid reasons why you might want to change your surname: If your birth name was Bumgullet or Crappadoodle; if your first name and surname clash in some way; if you can't stand your father or birth family; if your surname isn't even the surname you were born with but an outward manifestation of your mother's marital status, etc etc

Just to clear it up, there are no laws about what surname a DC can have in Quebec. It can be the mother's, the father's, or double barrelled. The fact that most still have the father's is purely societal, just as it is in the UK. For a time in Quebec double barrelling was extremely popular, though I'm under the impression that it's falling out of favour. On this topic it's also worth noting that, by and large, francophone Quebeckers don't "do" marriage anymore, so this whole name issue is almost a moot point! It is almost universally anglophone women who move to Quebec who get upset about the name issue - and I can certainly understand why some do, particularly when your name is expected to change retrospectively.

That's a good point - is it practicable to legislate on this without imposing a blanket ban on changing your name? If it only applied to married people or civil partners it would discriminate on the grounds of marital/civil partnership status, which is hardly desirable if the aim is to achieve greater equality.

Sorry Bue - xposted.

My maiden name wasn't even my fathers name it was my mothers first husbands name, I never met him and was not connected to him. I couldn't wait to get rid of the name. When I married I toyed with the idea of giving myself an exotic glamorous sounding name but in the end I took Dh's name as it made sense as we planned on having children and it didn't rock the boat with my family, if I had chosen a name from my family tree it would have offended someone along the line!

I thought feminism was about giving women freedom and choices. The situation in Quebec doesn't sound very democratic to me.

My birth name was only my name until I was 4, and then I was adopted. I'm assuming birth name includes adoptive name.

i think its is a great change. only women changing their name is pretty bizzare.

i choose 'we all keep our birth names'

There's a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance on this thread. Vv sad to hear in the 21st century.

A lot of what now?!

Actually, I'm not sure if it has been pointed out here, but this is a law that applies equally to everyone, regardless of marital status. The only allowable reasons for a name change in Quebec are something like it's impossible to spell/pronounce or may lead to mocking. So while I think this law did originate with feminists in the 70s, it does apply equally to all and isn't just about married women. I don't really see a problem with it.

Thanks everyone for all the responses.

I think the name changing thing is a petty little thing for me to be concerned about. But I really did want the same name as my DCs as I have, in my medical career, found problems in the past with things like appointments/consent etc with parents who have different names - enough that I felt that it was important for me. It's the retrospective part for me of changing it that I don't like. Now, I am forced not to have the same name as them.

My own maiden name sounds like someone is spitting their teeth across the room. I definitely wouldn't want to double-barrell it for my own DCs! My DHs name is more common - a bit like Evans. A simple, easy nice name. So it was purely this that made me choose for DCs to have this name and not my own. Apart from that, DHs family is very dear to me and i was proud to take their name (in the end after not wanting it for the first couple of years )

As for being Mrs, I have annhialated that problem by having the title of Dr!

I am very much a feminist, and feel that it is a bit high handed of the govt here to decide for women what their name should be. as said, I almost prefer the Swiss way which is to make a family all have the same name. Had that been the case, I still would have chosen DHs name (due to the fact that you don't have to spell it 18 times on the phone, only to find it's still spelled wrong)

I do think that the history of Quebec, and the shunning of the church and marriage as a consequence is a huge part of this, and pretty interesting. I'm also Canadian/British, so it's double irritating for me that the rest of Canada would let me have a choice. You're right Bue, it gets right up other Canadians noses to have to change their names here, not to mention the other immigrants. I always found it amazing that people accepted their names had to be anglicised when they arrived at Ellis Island as immigrants to the USA, and that's a little bit what has happened to me. (But I'm sure someone can tumble that analogy right off it's box! Give it a try.)

Although I took dh's surname I didn't take the title Mrs I use Ms because I don't see why my marital status is relevant. I know that this rule applies equally but I can't help but think it's unfair - if I want to change my name I bloody well will do! Why should I have to be lumbered with a name on my birth certificate that has no relevance to my identity?