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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do you ever use the social norms to your advantage?

22 replies

ChickensHaveNoLips · 01/07/2012 20:11

I've probably worded that really badly. I'll try to explain. I've been a SAHM for nearly 12 years. We have a fairly 'traditional' set up. Yet, when DH is home, we do split things pretty evenly. Yet I tend to give him the traditionally 'male' shit jobs eg putting the bins out, tidying the garage, unblocking the plumbing etc. I could do them, I'm quite capable of doing them, but I don't want to. And I have suddenly realised I'm a complete hypocrite. Because I consider myself a feminist, will argue for women's rights 'til the cows come home, yet retreat in to a '50's housewife when it suits me. It's a bit of a head fuck, tbh.

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carocaro · 01/07/2012 20:47

I think it is more to do with routine, dh does the bins as he does it when gets home, I normally have my hands full with book bags and kids stuff. When he
Is away I do it, he cooks sometimes but I do most of it. Unlocking a bog, vile,nso he does not, not because he is a man because I dont want too!

It's a bin and a bog, who cares? It's not speaking volumes about who you are or making you into a 1950's housewife. It's not hypocritical at all, when I lived with 2 female flamates we all took the bin out, we did not sit about and wait for a man to do it

aviatrix · 01/07/2012 22:58

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Beachcomber · 01/07/2012 23:12

Cut yourself some slack.

At least on the head fuck thing - I've thought for a while now that being a woman in this here society, involves a certain amount of unavoidable head fuckness.

IMO your post is about gender roles. They are hard to resist.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 10:17

Yes, I think that's it. But I could try to resist, and do, except when actually I think 'Nah, fuck it, I don't want equal opportunity to unblock the u-bend'. I'm going to stop doing that. It weakens my whole argument. Damn.

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Beachcomber · 02/07/2012 10:22

I don't want equal opportunity to unblock the u-bend

Grin
Whatmeworry · 02/07/2012 10:34

I think who does what is pretty much irrelevant so long as the shitty stuff is equally doled out (and different people see different things as shitty, which is a bonus - I like gardening, DH thinks its shitty for eg).

And most importantly, everybody gets the same amount of useful free time

TerrariaMum · 02/07/2012 10:35

Definitely cut yourself some slack. It is a complete headfuck. I found myself cross with my husband this weekend. And do you know what for? For being better at housework than me.

Of course he's better at housework, he grew up in a more domestic family than mine. He doesn't do it with fanfare, he just does it so my ire has nothing to do with him.

But modern gender roles sometimes seem to be saying that if you aren't good at housework, you're less of a woman. So his just getting on and doing stuff felt like an insult to my femininity instead of it being merely what it was.

So, you can't win. Therefore, do what works for you.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 10:38

Terraria, YES! I have felt that sense of 'ownership' over housework and got a bit shitty if I found DH wiping the sink around. As if he was criticising. Which I don't think he was. Or if he was, I should openly encourage him to criticise in such a productive way

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KRITIQ · 02/07/2012 10:40

I'd suggest just dividing tasks as it suits both of you. It's only if one person feels put upon or expected to do something because they are male or female that it's an issue, and needs to be discussed.

TerrariaMum · 02/07/2012 11:07

Chickens, funny you should mention oven cleaning. That's what DH was doing.

I'm with you KRITIQ, but I find it hard to put into practice. I feel like I should be doing everything.

KRITIQ · 02/07/2012 12:49

Ah Terraria, that's the interesting bit - how both men and women are socially conditioned to feel that certain things should be the responsibility of men or women. Even where we consciously make the decision not to play along with this, most of us will have internalised these beliefs and they linger there somewhere in our psyches, popping out now and again and making us feel things aren't "quite right."

Also, there are other people's expectations and how to manage those. You can even get a random stranger pausing as you're checking the oil in the car to say, "you should get your husband to do that," or praising your DH for "babysitting," or some such crap. It's the sort of stuff everyone has to deal with when you do anything that's outside what we've all been conditioned to believe is the "right way."

I guess the thing is just trying hard to be aware how you feel, how your DP feels, talk about it and do something before anyone gets to the stage of feeling put upon or uncomfortable, acknowledging all those pressures from without and within to "do things" in a way that may or may not be the right thing for both of you.

missmaviscruet · 02/07/2012 15:30

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garlicbutt · 02/07/2012 16:05

I consciously resist gender stereotypes like this: not always successfully, but I think it's worth being aware of the dissonance and trying to prevent it. There's no real excuse for any healthy adult not to be good at putting up shelves AND arranging/dusting them. In a political sense, we'll all get further faster when more people take it as read that both men and women can do the same things.

I've not been above flirting, simpering and looking helpless to get my own way, though Blush I tend to think if the sucker falls for that, he deserves it! But that's not healthy, either.

crescentmoon · 02/07/2012 16:07

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messyisthenewtidy · 02/07/2012 16:36

Yeah I think that manipulation and gaining of indirect power within a marriage was the only channel available. My mum used to tell me it was the worst thing to call a man "sweet" even if he'd done something really nice because it was emasculating.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 16:39

I've definitely flirted to get my own way, although not for a long time. Unless you count DH. It's quite sad to think that I learnt that from somewhere, actually.

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messyisthenewtidy · 02/07/2012 16:45

Chickens, I think flirting's ok! It is normal part of mating ritual no? At least it says so in my feminist manual!

ChickensHaveNoLips · 02/07/2012 16:50

I think flirting's ok if it's to show attraction, sure. But to get the delivery men to put the sofa in the upstairs room or to get served first in a bar...probably not so feminist Blush

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BertieBotts · 02/07/2012 16:54

So he unblocks it, but who usually does the day to day cleaning of the toilet?

EldritchCleavage · 02/07/2012 17:07

Interesting. My DH and I in some way have a traditional split of chores (I do all cooking, but never put bins out) but within a less conventional arrangement: he is SAHD, I am WOHM.

But in reality, a lot of the split is to do with character and individual preference. He is very fastidious about certain things, so does them to his satisfaction (which I wouldn't at all) . I am more bothered about others. Once we reversed the usual gender roles, it freed us to do as we wished. That said, I will happily do more technical things but DH likes to do them himself. He seems to deal with a residual anxiety about his unusual role, and possibly appearing emasculated, by being very particular at doing the traditional man's jobs.

I was horrified once when my mother told me to cry to get my own way on something. I would rather chew my arm off than do that. I find it interesting that it is more acceptable for a woman to cry e.g. at work, even in a blatantly manipulative way, than simply to get cross (not even angry) and tell it like it is. That depresses me greatly.

Oh, and flirting for its own sake is fine, but flirting to get something is not, in my book.

The one thing I've not been able to negotiate around is the importance of appearance for women, especially in the workplace, especially for BME women. I do power dress, even when I don't need to. DH often says, on non-meeting days, 'Oh, just go in casual clothes' and I know I could. But my strong feeling is, it would do me no good at all. I often look at the younger women and think they do themselves no favours with their floaty dresses, ballet flats, and wet hair. Then I berate myself for being an 80s throwback lacking in feminist solidarity.

EldritchCleavage · 02/07/2012 17:09

However, I have always got away with having whatever hairstyle I like, and I've had more than Hilary Clinton.

crescentmoon · 02/07/2012 17:22

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