Fish tank movie, was it rape?

[Margerykemp]

Don't know how to link video but it's on YouTube fish tank part 6 about 10 mins in.
Trigger warning btw.
Ignoring the fact she's 15 so it illegal anyway I couldn't help but see this scene as rape.
It happens very quickly.
She never says yes.
No contraception is used or mentioned.
She has a scared look on her face just before, like a rabbit caught in headlights.
She looks and sounds in pain throughout.

This sounds like one of those experiences people have spoken about on rape threads here where at the time they didn't think of it as rape but years later see it for what it is.

Are scenes like this in film which show rape but don't label it as such part of the rape apologist culture that leads to people believing rape myths?

Andrea Arnold already has a bad record for this in my book after Red Road which contained a false allegation of rape. There are so few female directors it would be nice if they could not be anti-feminist.

Really good question. I thought the scene was really well handled and very disturbing. I could just see it happening as soon as this guy came into her life.

As I remember, the female character's face was the focus of the scene and as you say, she looked and sounded to be in pain. The experience wasn't at all how she had hoped it would be. Looking from the outside in, yes I would describe it as rape. He should have made sure that he didn't cross that line with a 15 year old girl, even if she had consented which she didn't explicitly.

I don't even think she implicitly consented. Her body language said no. Her hands were down by her sides. She didn't look like a willing or equal participant.

I think it's a rape myth that the woman has to say no for it to be rape.

Yes it was rape. I remember seeing Basic Instinct when young. Everyone was talking about Sharon Stone's character wearing no knickers. What stood out for me was a scene that was clearly rape, presented as if it was passionate sex. And yes it does make it much harder for everyone, especially victims, to recognise and name rape for what it is.

I know we can't link e petitions here, but is anyone protesting or petitioning about this as it is propogating rape myths

I haven't seen the film since it was in the cinema so my memory of it isn't as clear as yours.

'I think it's a rape myth that the woman has to say no for it to be rape'

Completely agree with this. Although I can just imagine that many people would say she 'led him on' and 'gave all the right signals' so what was the bloke supposed to do??? It is completely 100% obvious when someone does want to have sex with you - I can't understand anyone who would carry on if there was any doubt at all that the other person was not comfortable. I think for some men, the stereotype of a shy young girl is a turn-on in itself, which is a horrible thought.

I think it would be really difficult to peddle the 'she led him on' line here. He asked her to dance, she resisted then gave in. He asked her to sit on his knee, she resisted then gave in. He kissed her but she never raised her arms up to cuddle/hold him. How could anyone interpret this as 'yes'?

I'm sure some people would have a good try Margerykemp! Not that I agree with them in any way but I find that a side effect of living in a culture where rape myths are everywhere, is that I find these kinds of comments coming into my head when rape is discussed because it's what I can imagine other people saying.

If I remember rightly, she turned up at his workplace one day and was always staring at him and wanting to be around him - that's what I thought some people would use as evidence that she wanted his attention in a sexual way.

Agree Lotta. Some people say/think - well she didn't scream and shout and try to get away. How was he supposed to know she didn't want sex?

'How was he supposed to know she didn't want sex?'

Exactly EatsBrainsandLeaves. Because all women want it all the time really and if they have 'led the bloke on' they deserve all they get Poor him, how is he supposed to be fair and respectful with another person when he's consumed by raging lust? Foul

Yes it is basically saying as women we want sex with a man unless we say very clearly we don't It is implied consent. Which is of course very wrong

it is certaily rape in the sence that any child abuse is rape. she sat with him for a short moment of what would seem to be a teenage girl sitting with and recieving affection from any father figure and then when he bagan to storke her hair and kiss her, he abused his position. she did willingly kiss him and moneuver herself and she did not resisit him removing her trousers. However i would most certainly class this as rape. it is impossible to argue that she consented, or was afraid to resisit.

the absence of a 'no', doesnt make a 'yes', i'll be making both my sons aware of this.

I didn't think it was rape. We see for ages before it happens that she fancies her mother's boyfriend, she knows what she is doing is wrong so goes into a dreamlike fugue state where she can almost pretend to herself she isn't doing what she wants. He too is a complete fuck up and of course should not have done any of it.

But that's the point of it all - they are all one big fuck up.

I think he groomed her as much as anything. That sex scene (which I think is rape) was like a dog peeing on it's territory and he was punishing her for sleeping with someone else. It was entirely for his benefit and he was a nasty, nasty creep.

goodness.

you certainly saw a different film to me.

she doesn't fancy him- she sees him as a father figure which makes it even more yuk

she didn't actually 'do' anything, she lay there and got fucked

I agree with comrade about the territotial aspect of it

i don't think she sees him as a father figure remotely!

That's what the tension is about, her and her mother and the feckless man.

Is there a link to watch the scene? I've had a quick look but cant find it...

I think it makes more sense if you watch the whole film so the scene is in context. But up to you.

I thought one of the strengths of the whole film was its ability to portray "grey areas" very well. So, for example, on the question of whether she fancies the man or thinks of him as a father figure, I think it's deliberately left very ambiguous. I'm not sure even she is supposed to know - and that's very plausible: she's young, she's inexperienced, she has had no support or education in how to deal with her feelings, and she has no decent adult examples in her life.

So in fact one of the saddest things for me in this was the way in which her need for some affection and attention, from anyone (because of her awful fucked up homelife where she gets none), is twisted and ends up leading her to look to this horrible (but very charming, very plausible) man. And that, of course, ends in the sexual abuse of a minor by a man who very obviousy should have known better, but who (as Hully says) is also completely fucked up.

I feel quite strongly about this film as I think it is an completely realistic portrayal of certain kinds of relationships, including, in part, my own childhood (without the man and the sex, I'm happy to say).