that 'chemical imbalance' myth

[Alameda]

so nice to see this notion that has been used to oppress and repress women for decades finally discussed as a dangerous myth - chemical imbalances and other black unicorns

although I despair at how sort of prevalent it is, how regressive and how effective it is at distracting women from the cultural determinants of their unhappiness

Obviously depression and anxiety can be very severe - I'm not meaning otherwise - but something like bipolar is a different kettle of fish somehow.

Getting myself in a pickle here!

What I mean is that I am sure some MH probs are organic / genetic / chemical imbalance and so forth.

However this explanation for all of it, is not satisfactory, as it means that underlying causes and trends are not looked at - see earlier post re. girls and young women with "behavioural problems" and their history being overlooked.

Drugs are great if they work.
AFAIK the docs and scientists take is they work so great rather than knowing that they are actually tackling an underlying imbalance. They don't really know what's going on either. Like ECT "works" but no-one knows why really. But if someone is at that stage and you have something that might well make them feel better then you use it.

Depression is known to be a symptom of feeling powerless. Dogs and rats show it, for example, when they're placed in a reward/punishment environment where the effects are random, no matter what they do. It pretty much sums up my childhood and the events that triggered my breakdown. There have been many persuasive studies that show depression increases the more a person's decision-making capacity at work is eroded. Women caring at home for young children or old people probably feel powerless to control their lives. So do people doing heavily controlled, repetitive jobs - and the unemployed in a depression.

SQ, you're right that it's not known how antidepressants work. What you might have missed (sorry if not, am half-reading) is the neurotransmitter chain reactions that cause adrenaline, to take a common example, to shut down other processes. Although logical in an emergency, over an extended period it causes malfunctions which the brain reads as an emergency - so produces more stress hormones, which perpetuate the cycle. This is a chemical (hormonal) imbalance; some folks might be more prone to it and even born with it but, at present, all we know is that it happens and SSRIs / SNRIs /SDRIs can help.

Interesting to hear people say that one of the uses of the chemical imbalance theory is that it allows depression to be seen as a 'proper' illness.

As a society we don't seem to have developed a very sophisticated model of mental illness; often feels like a binary between 'mental illness is just the same as a physical problem like a broken leg' and 'pull yourself together, it's all in your head'. I'm not sure either is very helpful, though the former is certainly better than the latter!

Agree with that mooncup!
_

Am pleased to read the comments about causes including feeling powerless, groups at risk include parents of young children.

You see for me - having not had any MH problems before -that is very reassuring. And, of course, that when life changes - as it will - things might well get better. That for me is more reassuring than the chemical imbalances reason - the former explanation I can understand and hope for improvement - the second is a bit of a no mans land (can I say that in fem section? ) of well what's that and how did it happen and if/when will it go and a bit less hope in a sort of a way.

IYSWIM

So I think I'm saying that individuals with their own backgrounds and stuff might prefer one explanation over the other for themselves and that is a strong reason to prefer one explanation over another.

Whereas in fact it is probably either / or / or a mix and it would be better to look at things from that perspective.

Yes SQ... and of course the narratives we tell ourselves about our lives affect how we react to and recover from things as well!

Garlic - I agree that bipolar has a biological cause. Not so sure with depression.

Although some feel this way, I actually think believing bipolar is biological is worse than thinking it is environmental. Generally people have bipolar for life. If it was environmental, then surely it could be cured.

I don't often stray in feminism but this caught my eye. I think the "chemical imbalance" thing didn't work for me, I blog about my years struggling to get off of Sertraline/Prozac: Withdrawal Blogspot I actually hated the side effects of Sertraline (libido) and felt totally trapped by being hooked on Sertraline, and the thing that trapped me was my doctor and husband telling me I had a "chemical imbalance" and "if you had diabetes you'd take insulin wouldn't you?".
I understand that that SSRI's work for a lot of people, and the "chemical imbalance" theory works for a lot of people, but for me it left me feeling totally inadequate and like I was fundamentally flawed in some way.
That's just my experience and I'm just one person here.

Sorry rubbish at doing links!

sorry SDTG, I was thoughtless about how I said that - I should attach some sort of disclaimer about my own credentials of long term lithium treatment, it could well be saving my life (the evidence for lithium in bipolar at least is robust)

of course your experiences are welcome, sorry I made you feel otherwise

(will read rest of thread now!)

Thank you for that, Alameda.

phew! I think what I meant was, yes it is great that we are living NOW and not in the age of clitoridectomies or the rest cure and we have these treatments BUT it is not good if they are distracting us from other possible causes which is a particularly recurring theme for women throughout history I think

the manic depression/depression thing is interesting - I am a bit 50-50 about whether they are different animals or not, only really had one episode of quite hardcore depression (probably had millions of lesser ones) and it was probably just like any other episode of fairly severe clinical depression and might have been the only time antidepressants helped (before they made me manic)

although I never had any idea I was depressed or went to my gp or anything like that, just got taken into hospital, it was all a bit of a shock. Anyway manic depression/bipolar affects men and women equally whereas depression seems to be predominantly a female preserve and schizophrenia I think is 1.4 men to every woman.

Aoh and obviously it is especially not good if women are struggling to withdraw from paroxetine or venlafaxine or similar if what they mainly needed in the first place was a close confiding relationship, freedom from abuse, financial autonomy or some other sort of support - we must not add to our problems by trying to medicate people into accepting shitty relationships,poverty and round the clock domestic slavery

oh this is interesting

"EatsBrainsAndLeaves Tue 26-Jun-12 18:48:11
There is a big difference between depression and what used to be called manic depression and is now more usually called bipolar. Manic depression usually lasts a lifetime is incurable. Those with it usually take a mood stabiliser drug for the rest of their life. And for many, it is the manic phases which are much more of a problem than the depressive stages.

Just thought its not helpful to talk about depression and manic depression as if it is the same thing."

On average people with bipolar spend vastly more time depressed than manic, maybe that is mainly bipolar II people or because depressive episodes go on forever longer than manic/hypomanic but it's not true to say it lasts a lifetime and is incurable, some people do make a full (as in no more hospital admissions ever) recovery with or without medication!

Am also under impression from somewhere that 'mood stabiliser' is another term that has a more marketing than medical basis. But sorry, back to the locus of women's depression and anxiety - bad biochemistry or the patriarchy?

Lithium and other mood stabilisers save lots of lives for people with bipolar. The risk of death either through suicide or psychotic behaviour e.g. believing you can fly, for those who refuse to take mood stabilisers, is high.

how do you define 'mood stabiliser' though? I know there is evidence for lithium reducing the risk of suicide but not aware of any others, or indeed anything else that is an actual 'mood stabiliser'

(as opposed to anticonvulsants or antipsychotics used to treat mania that is)

Alameda - Sorry don't know names of them. Newer drugs that are given as an alternative to lithium. Newer ones are pushed by the drug companies, but yes lithium has the research behind it because it has been used for so long. But there is not much money to be made out of it for the drug companies.

The alternatives to lithium are anticonvulsants or antipsychotics - I think by mood stabiliser what is generally meant is 'treats mania and depression' or as in the case of lamictal 'gives you longer between episodes'. Quetiapine is a good example, it makes you sleepy and hungry so there's some of your symptoms of depression eradicated right there but it's not an antidepressant, you just seem less depressed if your sleep improves and your appetite picks up - until you're about 13 stone and suicidal from the lard!