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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it ok that women have to change their names when they become parents?

55 replies

TheSpokenNerd · 23/06/2012 21:47

An angry thread in chat...or maybe AIBU just kicked off when a woman came on to discuss her choice of teaching her 15 month old to call her by name and not "mummy"

I know...thread about a thread...but need to hear your opinions from a Feminist pov

Why do you think some people get so angry about a woman not wanting the title?

OP posts:
oiwheresthecoffee · 23/06/2012 21:51

I ve no idea. I knew someone who called his mum by his name. Its up to the family surely ?

madwomanintheattic · 23/06/2012 22:04

Surely mummies and daddies have to change their name (or choose to) when they become parents?

I don't think the terms mummy and daddy are problematic in themselves, but society's expectations of the roles according to the gender of the parent....

The name itself is more to with individual identity for men and women, Nowt to do with just women changing their names likes they can choose to do on marriage.

madwomanintheattic · 23/06/2012 22:05

(that's not to say the role of mother isn't problematic, but the name itself is no more problematic than 'father'. Just the connotations....)

EdithWeston · 23/06/2012 22:07

Men also become "daddy", but that wasn't in the other thread because it was from the pov of an individual parent.

Mummy and Daddy (or variants thereof) are deeply engrained as the terms that children use to refer to their parents. It is unusual for a parent to depart from this, and I suppose it isn't surprising that people comment on it.

There is much more to being a parent than nomenclature.

enimmead · 23/06/2012 22:10

Alternatives - "Parent, I'm hungry"?

Not quite the same, is it?

edam · 23/06/2012 22:11

I don't think there's anything un-feminist in answering to Mummy or Mum or Mam or any of the other words that mean 'female parent'. Nor is there in choosing to be known by your first name.

It's not a gender issue as far as I'm aware because it happens to both parents - it's not as if women turn into Mummies while men keep their first names.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 23/06/2012 22:14

Where does it say that you have to change your name when you become a parent? Most people do, but it's not compulsory. Do whatever you are happy with.

CaramelTree · 23/06/2012 22:15

I don't think this is a feminist issue.

TheCrackFox · 23/06/2012 22:16

I like it when my DCs call me mum but I cannot stand it when other people call me mum (HVs were often guilty of this).

Tbh men get called dad so I don't really see it as a feminist issue.

HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 22:19

I'm not sure it would be considered any more ok if it was the father wanting to be called by his first name, would it? I'm not sure that if you had a mother and a father not wanting to allow their children to call them mum or dad, that you'd have anyone going oh my god, not wanting to be mum, how shocking! while at the same time shrugging their shoulders and going well, be Ben if you want to be, no big deal.

I was on that thread and I must admit I did find it sad. I thought of my children and thought about telling them that I did not want them to call me mum. That they had to call me by my first name. I couldn't help thinking that a child might feel rejected by that. Not to call your parent by their first name, but the idea of being told your whole life that you cannot call them mum. I realise that's irrational and it has NOTHING to do with how much you love your child, I do get that. But the emotional part of me still reacted to the idea of a child being told no, don't call me mummy, I'm not mummy, I'm X.

However, the feminist issue is, I think (I await to be corrected on this if I have misunderstood/oversimplified the issue), that when you are a mother - that is all you are! As a woman you are defined by your roles to other people. So and so's wife, so and so's mother - and you can lose YOU in that. You become nothing more than what you are to other people, iyswim and you must take yourself to the bottom of the pile, with everyone else's needs coming before yours at all times.

Whereas a man is always him. He may be a husband, he may be a father, but he is always HIM.

And the prize for most inarticulate post goes to hecate Grin

TheCrackFox · 23/06/2012 22:23

I get your point Hecate but I think that would/can happen (being bottom of the pile) no matter what you decide your children should call you by.

My dad always called his parents by their first name but he chose to be called dad.

kim147 · 23/06/2012 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 22:29

oh no, I'm not saying that not being called mum can change that Grin sorry. I did say I was inarticulate. Just an observation on the difference between men and woman. A man is himself first and foremost, whereas a woman is her roles to other people first and foremost.

imo anyway.

HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 22:31

arghh. Meant that my understanding is that the feminist issue re parenthood is not so much a woman not wanting to be called mum, but the inequality between how men and women/mothers and fathers are seen.

I am really trying to explain what I mean but I can't put it together. Blush

TheCrackFox · 23/06/2012 22:34

I do think that society takes a dim view of mothers - they should be martyrs, mumsy and buy Westlife albums - so I can see why someone would want to resist the title of mum.

However, the title "mum" is handy word to signify an important relationship. A lot easier to say "mum" rather than "ThrCrackFox who is the woman who gave birth to me."

TheSpokenNerd · 23/06/2012 22:35

I find it so interesting that it's not a moveable thing for many...but it just IS what it is...people get distressed about it and I couldn't understand that...it's only a name to me..mine called me by my name for about two years...her choice...it never made me feel sad or anything...I like that she saw me for who I am....as well as her parent I am X.

OP posts:
AThingInYourLife · 23/06/2012 22:41

I was very surprised and amused by that thread.

I don't think that just because an issue pertains to men as well as women that that means it is not a feminist issue.

Arguments about how mothers don't get to be "selfish" because they have more important things to think about don't become any less problematic if you extend them to fathers too.

HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 22:46

But I think they are two different things.

one is the child calling the parent by the first name, by the child's choice, perhaps because they hear everyone else using that name

and the other is the parent denying the child the right to call them mum/dad. Saying that they don't want that title.

plus, for me, i am reminded of my dad, who always calls his parents by their first names because they don't deserve the titles mum and dad because of how they treated him as a child. His decision to call them X and Y was a rejection of them as his parents. So I have that in my mind as well when I think about the whole issue and about how powerful a title is and what it - or lack of it - can mean. I also think of a colleague of mine whose son always called her by her first name and always had. You couldn't find a more loving parent if you tried! They adored one another and the name was just a name. Nothing else. So I suppose at the end of the day, sometimes it means nothing at all! Grin not a thing. But sometimes it means a lot.

TheSpokenNerd · 23/06/2012 22:50

Yes Hec but some people were mortally offended by the rejection of it...the name I mean. Why I wonder? Do they feel it diminishes their stature somehow?

OP posts:
HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 23:07

I don't know. I wouldn't say I was offended by the rejection of the name, I don't think it's a stature thing. but more that I got caught up in imagining the hurt a child could feel if their parent told them that they did not want their child to call them mum (or dad). Imagine hearing that growing up.

Mummy...

I've told you before, my name's not mummy, it's Margaret. Call me Margaret.

I came over all emotional Blush I blame my overactive imagination. i could see the hurt little eyes and the quivering lip and everything.

HecateAdonaea · 23/06/2012 23:08

gawd, I'm a bit pathetic really, aren't I? Blush

AThingInYourLife · 23/06/2012 23:15

"but more that I got caught up in imagining the hurt a child could feel if their parent told them that they did not want their child to call them mum (or dad)"

But this is a small toddler.

At that age children don't choose what to call their parents, they take their cues from the parents.

In my case I didn't get my first choice (Mammy) because it felt wrong in English DH's mouth. But my daughters had no opinion, they just went with what they were given.

If what they had been given was my first name, why would that be weird to them?

By the time a child is likely to be aware that other children all say something else, they will be used to the conventions in their own family.

Why presume there will ever be a conversation about what the child is allowed to call a parent?

MiniTheMinx · 23/06/2012 23:47

I don't know, accept I assume mother comes from Matriarch and father from patriarch. Is that a problem?

MiniTheMinx · 23/06/2012 23:49

accept Confused too tired

enimmead · 23/06/2012 23:52

patri = father
Matri = mother
Arch = arches

Patriarch is the father as the arch - read into that what you will.

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