Prepare yourself for a fit of rage

[squeaver]

The EU has spent actual money on a campaign designed to interest girls in science.

this is the result.

I was wondering Pickled I'm neither middle aged or a 'mama' though...

I do know plenty of women in science who objected to the way their career is being portrayed and I also know (apologies for anecdata) that my niece who is 14 commented 'I like makeup but that's not why I like science, what's the point of this'. She didn't like it not least because it clearly couldn't be Hydrogen in the flask and she likes science for science's sake (and she's bloody good at physics and maths) not because it might help her know what the ingredients in her lipstick are.

DD who is 11 said that the message she gets from the video is 'girls can be scientists too so don't rule it out' whereas DS1 who is 8 said it says to him 'girls are naff scientists'.

Didn't spot the unhealthy stereotype Such, the only one I saw was the one where girls were ummm...girls.

Have looked again and there is no cleavage on show (sadly not the case at our local HS) and the only actual leg shot, yes there is only one, is of the bottom third of a girl's legs in trousers.

Off to analyse the make up bits now...

Meant to say the rest of the leg shots are sort of in shadow.

"Didn't spot the unhealthy stereotype"

You missed the "girls will only be interested in science if we point out you can make make-up with it" then?

Pickled, how film is put together, the juxtaposition of shots, lighting etc has a very prescriptive language to it. Even when the audience doesn't know all the grammar of the language they do get the message that it sends. This clip uses language in a way which does denigrate girls and promote the male gaze. If I could get to my laptop could give you a full in depth analysis of it, shot by shot.

I've done media studies at post grad level btw so not just making this up. Also taught it for several years, including how to make short films to A level students.

Empusa, that is one interpretation of the 'make up' shots, another one is that it's just a way of bringing girls and science together - DD thinks it's cool how it shows the make up brush as if the powder is exploding and that the message is 'would you rather have this make up brush or an explosion that no one has heard of before?'.

It is interesting to hear her take on it although she is only 11. When I asked her about sexism (she has a vague understanding of what it means) she said that it might be offensive to men because of the way the guy is looking at the girls .

But pickled the people who made this clip know the language of film, it is their ft job. They have deliberately and knowingly put together the film so that it enhances stereotypes and lowers the image of women.

There are 7/8 young pretty girls in the film who look confident, happy and healthy. I'm not keen on the 'simpering' as OneHand said up thread but I don't think it's quite as sinister as everyone's making out.

My wants to be a scientist DD1 (14) day's it's a make up ad.

When I said what it is actually for she rolled her eyes skywards in the way that means what fucking planet are they on.

Say's is a make up add.

I must confess I thought it was a stereo type riddled pop video

Pickled, are you deliberately ignoring what I'm saying?

It isn't whether the girls are pretty, but that a group of adults, attempting to promote sexual equality, have actually put together something that promotes sexual stereotyping, and aims for the lowest common denominator of femininity in a way which actually promotes sexual INequalities.

That is what is so sinister - that we are all so used to the degrading stereotypes that we actually USE them and therefore confirm them even when trying to oppose them.

I'm not ignoring you kickass, I'm just not sure I agree with you.

So what would your alternative video be?

So what would your alternative video be?

something with a mix of girls - probably reasonably cool looking ones, not Amy from BBT - doing some real science. e.g. Girl at computer, show screen and instead of FB there's some sort of molecular graphics. That kind of thing. Not quite as straightforward as the ones now showing (which are fine in their way).

What I want to see is when the content of Dream Jobs appears - is it going to include details of family-friendly career structures?

I've been thinking what made me interested in science when I was a teenager:

Teachers that made science interesting
Fun field trips to the coast etc
A curriculum that involved lots of practical experiments.

Through the media:
Reading the New Scientist and National Geographic
The Christmas lectures that were on every year.

and of course the lack of such an influential celebrity culture.

I was interested in science because it was so darned interesting!

Yes that too GrimmaTheNome

The first science I remember learning was at primary school, when I was about 7 or 8. I helped set up a weather station in the playground, and participated in the daily monitoring.

I'm not sure I know any girls who don't like science when they're young. Even the 'girliest' loved kitchen chemistry and bughunts, making and flying model aircraft etc when they came here.

At what stage do they lose this? (I don't know, DD and her best friends haven't lost their interest).

This makes me want to weep.

A lipstick???

A feckin lipstick?????

lipstick????

Girls lose this when the media tells them to worry more about appearance, boys and their appearance some more.

Is that what the lipstick is all about???

Holy crap.

I remember a campaign 'not all chemists wear white coats' when I was in 6th form which struck a chord with me. It showed both men and women scientists doing 'cool stuff' some in a lab setting but others in the field. I did a chemistry BSc and analytical chemistry MSc...etc... and am now a principal lecturer.

If I personally had seen this EU video at age 16 I would have hated it as much then as I do now. Perhaps I wouldn't have been their target audience then either as I was a confirmed maths and science geek from early on.

Nowadays I do a lot of outreach stuff with schools both at University, in schools and via the RSC. I think hand on real world science is a great way to get girls and boys fired up with science but this glorified tampax/makeup advert is not.

The point of the advert is just to get people talking, it has no real place in the campaign which thankfully appears to have more substance. I'm assuming that it is all carefully orchestrated and that the jobs page will be updated at a crucial time...whenever that may be

Yes - that was the aim. And in that it succeeded, it was discussed on PM on R4 this afternoon; the reaction was much as here - that it was misguided and disliked by people who'd seen it. But its not clear that the people who are talking are largely the target audience.

I think teenage girls know full well when they are being patronised.