Help me make sense of my thoughts and articulate my argument

[MordecaiAndTheRigbys]

So I am in work today, and a conversation starts up about the Irish match tonight (I am Irish!) I dont know if any of ye read the papers but essentially there were a group of Irish male fans in the grounds, 2 Croatian girls passed, the boys started singing *get your tits out for the lads" one girl did, an Irish fan licked her nipple, someone took a picture and it went viral.

Of course he is now a legend, she a slut. She works for the Croation ministry and is being investigated for her conduct. He was given out to by his mammy.

I had to listen to people today say, he was one of the lads, he is just having fun. However, she should not have flashed, its her own fault she was being investiagted. I was just red with rage at this and couldnt get across why I had such an issue with it. No matter what I said I was shouted down. I have had my eyes open by lurking on this board but I am not yet articulate enough to argue clearly and confidently so I need your help. What do you think of this case?
Article here

thescore.thejournal.ie/eamon-keegan-photo-jelena-miksa-breast-employer-sanction-trouble-viral-ireland-fan-euro-2012-poznan-485246-Jun2012/

Mordechai I could have written your post myself - it's just outrageous.

I have been saying 'sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander' to varying degrees of shut-uppedness/hilarity.

Mind you working for your countries' ministry is a pretty big deal, and that does account for part of it. So it's not as open and shut as two young irresponsible pissheads, acting together.

But it's wonderful to see the stupid slut/opportunistic legend played out - yet again - in this great little country.

I somehow think 'opportunistic' is exactly the right word - not just in this case but as an overarching theme.We live in a society that rewards risk takers/opportunists. Is this another example of women's bodies as being something to exploit? A natural resource, amlost. It's almost morally wrong to pass up an opportunity to gain something for oneself. Sorry for stream of consciousness - Must mull on it a bit.

I think what annoys me most is the double standard of it. If people think it wasn't okay for her to flash a breast, surely they should also think it's not okay for him to lick her nipple.
IMO that's all by the by anyway as I hate that sexual harrassement in form of chants like 'get you tits out for the lads' is considered in anyway acceptable.

I also don't see why she is being investigated for someting that (presumably) happened outside work? What has it got to do with them?

If I was photographed moony-ing a crowd just because they chanted it at me, I am sure my employer would not be happy. If the terms of her employment contract prohibit this kind of action, then she should be subject to whatever action is within that contract. Perhaps an employment lawyer/specialist on here can explain it better though.

Anyone chanting this kind of rubbish is a moron. Anyone responding to it in this way is no more intelligent.

I think both are equally responsible. This damn office just seems to think that she should have known better because she is the female and should have more decorum. He however is lauded for his part. I really didnt think I worked with people like this. I work in a progressive community based position, very female orientated. I cant even articulate this...

Its good to know I am not the lonliest voice in Ireland!

What is it about this generation and their compulsion to photograph and distribute every single aspect of their lives? Is it attention-seeking? Is everybody now desperate for recognition and their five minutes of fame, regardless of how moronic their behaviour is? I don't understand it.

When a crows of men is screaming things at you, it can be downright terrifying. And the fact he LICKED her nipple?

I can't imagine how deeply violated she must feel, even if she isn't expressing it.

Oh they would probably say she was 'asking for it' because clearly by lifting her top she was inviting him to make physical conact with his tongue.

It's thoroughly depressing that this attitude still exist and that women are expected to be 'better' behaved than men. It's about putting the responsiblity for morality on to women IMO. It's like teenage girls being taught about abstinence when boys aren't because 'well, boys wil be boys' won't they. My boys certainly aren't going to be brought up to be.

The intimidatory nature of the chanting is a good point too. If she and her friend had just carried on walking and ignored them it would probably have turned into insults and threats.

OK, looking at the photo, the women in it don't look terrified, they are smiling and seem to be having a good time. Also, judging by Miska's own words in the article linked to above, she did not consider it to be a sexual assault:

?I don?t regret anything ? For me the only important thing is how my squad played. Let?s go on to win,? Miksa said afterwards.

It's ridiculous that her employers are investigating her over this but it would only be sexism if the man was working in the same company and was not reprimanded. We have no idea where he works and what, if any, his employers' reactions are.

OP is talking about attitudes in her office though Frances - not their workplaces.

Kinda reminds me of 'The Accused.'

I think they both behaved disgracefully.

'Get your tits out for the lads' is a disgusting chant, and he (and his friends) are foul. But she is also to blame. She could have ignored or better still REPORTED it to UEFA. I have reported racist and sexist abuse from an England fan in the past and had them banned from Wembley for it. To get her breasts out? Pathetic.

They both deserve to be shamed, clearly, and I certainly do find it sad that she is the one bearing the brunt.

I don't think either of them deserve to be shamed. They were both just having fun.

People need to stop freaking out about breasts.

Ye all put your arguments together so well. This ^ all this up here is what I needed. IThank you. Its not right is it?

Oh please@Frances. It was vile. I was at that match. Everyone else was enjoying the football. These absolute arses were acting like this. Grim. His attitude is foul, nd she was encouraging it; She isnt a victim, neither is he.

i'm sure a crowd of men in high spirits are terrifying, also to a guy who doesnt partake in 'ladism' .
'get your tits out' is a sexist rant, no question about that, but if your terrified i would suggest lifting your top and exposing your breasts wouldnt be the best cause of action.
But why are we talking about this, well some posters have suggested she was assulted, bollox! she was having fun, she is smileing and clearly enjoying herself.
call it bad taste, or licentious or even anti social, but not assault.

if the footballer had exposed his penis and the girl had licked it and a photo was taken i'm sure his carreer would be being discussed by management and it would probobly be over.

No, chairman, the two examples are not equivalent. Exposing one's genitalia and exposing one's chest are very different things.

yes point taken , genitals and breasts have a different shock-factor.

if she was a british diplomat and he was a ukrainian footballer , she licks his nipple. her job is still in jepordy, as is his!