Defining Feminism

[BelleTheBeatnik]

Discussing a friend, who's left work to become a SAHM - seemingly indefinitely - with another colleague today. My colleague suggested that a sucessful woman choosing motherhood over her career made a mockery of the rights women have fought so hard to achieve over the years.

Don't agree with this - I had always thought, considering myself a Feminist that it's the notion of giving women the choice to do as they like - which for some isn't necessarily working or even sharing conjugal roles with their partners - rather than the actual action of doing it which defines Feminism.

I don't know whether this is the general consensus or if I'm completely missing the point, but I wanted to know if Feminism is a rigidly defined viewpoint or something which a person decides for themselves? IYSWIM (you probably don't. MN has taught me that I'm rubbish at articulating on the Internet ).

Disclaimer: Afraid to say I don't visit these boards as often as I should so sorry if this is an overdone subject (MN has also taught me that however wonderful my idea for a thread is, someone else has probably come up with it before me!).

Is your colleague a mother herself?

i'm a guy so it isnt really for me to say what the feminist position on SAHMism is.
my personal opinion is that it's a choice for the family to make, if there are no kids however i would take a dim veiw of a woman chosing to stay at home but then i would take the same dim view of a man doing the same.

i think if you have 3 kids it's probobly better that somebody stays home, but the person who works should be the better earner of the pair.

Feminism has never been a single theory, there are a range of feminist theories.

To me it is perfectly possible to accept that being a SAHM is a forced/encouraged gendered presumption (including unequal pay) which needs to be challenged whilst supporting and accepting that women carry out that role.

This is no different from the Marxist critique of capitalism accepting that within a capitalist society people need to work within it.

So many hot potatoes in one post! This thread could get HUUUUGGGE.

Feminism is political - like marxism or capitalism or environmentalism. Therefore, analysis is a key part. I think simplifying feminism to being about the choice of women without examining the reality of the options (or non-options) available isn't feminist. And limiting choices isn't feminist either.

There are numerous strands within feminism. But feminism could generally be described as a movement with the aim of acheiving economic, political and social equality.

I don't think it is about giving women 'more choice.' Obviously some choices that people make are negative ones for those around them (the choice to slander people without legal consequences for example). More choice doesn't always lead to people becoming more equal.

It is unlikely that the woman is going to be a SAHM forever. Presumably at some point her children leave home, and then she won't be a SAHM. In the various SAHM debates that have been on MN, I have never found a poster who does nothing but be a SAHM. They always turn out to be either a student or working as a volunteer or involved in some kind of activism. To me the issue is not one of people becoming SAHM, but of the workplace putting huge obstacles in the way of people who have done other things returning to work. Even if she is at home for 10 years, she's still going to have more experience to bring to the workplace than a 22 year old, but businesses tend to go for the 22 year old.

So how is it really a choice? And why does there have to be a choice between motherhood and career? Why is it okay to work for 35 years and then retire at 55, but not okay to work for 35 years but have a large break to be with your children in the middle of those 35 years?

And yes to the end of male oppression of women and the structures that support it.

Dittany, your post is misleading. You should make it clear that you are talking about radical feminism not feminism. Choice does play an important role in other strands of feminism.

What do the choice-ers call themselves?

Mainstream, liberal, post modern, cultural... Several
I suppose, but you probably already know that.

As discussed previously on this thread, there are a range of feminist ideologies and theories, as most regulars here know but newcomers may not have come across.

In response to the OP, I chose to be a sahm for my own reasons and because of my own unique situation. Feminism to me is about women having the choice to work and have successful careers or to stay at home and nurture their children.

No need to have a go. I'm just interested in the aims of those that call themselves feminists. And whose aims would be served by those of radical feminists, but not vice versa. After the revolution (joke! or maybe not...), choices would not be made in a vacuum of limited choice. I'm only learning here, but it seems that radical feminist aims lead to choice in abundance. When male oppression is not the default, then anything really is possible.

I'm with Dittany on this one - feminism is not simply about 'choice'. If that were the case then just deciding to put on a skirt in the morning could be viewed as a feminist act, which is nonsense.

However, traditional 'women's work' such as raising children is massively undervalued in society and women are disproportionately penalised for being the ones who have to take time out from work etc.

But in an oppressive society, women weren't given the luxury of 'choice'?

I think I've confused myself. Am I completely barking up the wrong tree?

The whole thing that advocating choice means regarding every choice a woman makes as a feminist act is a strawman.

It's not a feminist act to wear high heels/make up/do whatever the abolitionists would like to see banned. But a woman should be free to do so, if she wishes, without the accusation of letting the sisterhood down and without ridicule.