Breastfeeding and Feminism

[WidowWadman]

Someone mentioned it on the Patriarchy Thread, but I think it deserves a thread of its own.

Breastfeeding is getting a lot of positive coverage with "breast is best" and similar slogans, and I think anything which encourages access to support is great.

At the same time, there's no doubt about it, breastfeeding is tying women down, at least for the initial months, in a way that bottlefeeding doesn't.

Now I've BF'd my first child for 18 months, and have been BFing my second for a year now with no idea how long I'll continue.

Once established, I find it harder to quit than to keep going, even though I seriously wish sometimes she'd just wean herself. I felt the same with No2.

I'm a bit ambivalent about it - I like the fact that it's free, helps to shed weight, and that it means less washing up and sterilising. I'm just really not sure about the ideology thing.

I think women should be getting support if they want it, and that includes access to space for pumping while at work, but I don't like how mothers who choose not to are being made feel guilty. And I'm seriously not sure whether the benefits aren't overstated by the pro-BF lobby.

In a way, a woman who doesn't breastfeed can enjoy freedom much earlier than one who does, so the overzealous promotion of BF (as shown in the endless breast vs bottle arguments), seems sometimes a bit anti-woman to me. It all points into the whole essentialist gender role crap again, doesn't it?

So what is the 'proper' feminist stance, if there is one?

Agree but that's not what the op is about?

We're groping our way around what a 'proper' feminist stance would be which is what the OP asked. And whilst it's not what I expected to be doing on a Friday night it's a damn sight more interesting .

eclectic

When you are faced with the question how you would like to give birth there's plenty of ideology thrown at you.

Ever heard the phrase "to posh to push"? That's denigrating a woman's choice for a ELCS.

Ever heard horror stories about the cascade of intervention trying to scare you out of asking for pain relief?

Ever heard the horror stories about dead babies when you plan a home birth or horror stories about big fat forceps used in hospitals which you wouldn't need if you only trust your body enough to give birth at home?

No matter what birth mode a woman favours, there's plenty of people who'll tell her that she's wrong.

But widow, Chikdren and families were intrinsically tied up in the means of production and valued as a part of it.

The separation of roles was a patriarchical move.

I agree TCOB, in our US office where women are effectively asked to choose between working full time from 3 months and not bf or not returning at all, they choose not to return. And this in a female-dominated office. That is not the sort of level playing field we should be aiming for.

This thread is confusing. Op is talking about patriarchy enforcing bf? Some posters are talking about patriarchy discouraging bf. who cares what anyone else thinks, you do what is right for you and your child. Why is everyone so keen to blame others for their decisions?

Ww, plenty of people will tell you that you are wrong about anything. It's not a feminist issue.

I think that there are feminist issues if not within bfing itslf, but the marketing of it. This poster for example; a clear reminder that a woman's breasts are for anyone but her. Or this one, which attempts to market bfing as a fashion accessory.

Much of the marketing seems to centre around the idea that you can still be 'sexy' and breastfeed; this irks me intensely. Why on earth should being attractive to men be a concern of a woman feeding her child? It smacks of "Don't worry, you can still be exploited!".

FWIW, I hated bfing. I tried it with DD1 and gave up after about a month; a month of hell where my body did not feel like my own- this time I decided to ff DD2 from birth and I cannot believe the difference this has made to my mood, it's fantastic. I had to have absolute conviction in my decision to do this however, as it was questioned at every turn. It is often erroneously assumed that women who ff do not have enough information or support with which to make an informed choice; it is this patronising assumption which needs challenging, and I believe that this too is a feminist issue.

eclectic - it's a discssion. And that means pondering around the issues being raised by the OP. We're not in AIBU where a simple yay or nay would suffice (in fact this topic in AIBU could go totally nuts).

starlight - you lost me there. I'm not working in 'production' (apart from the production of paperwork) - are you suggesting thatcareers like mine, in which you need to be able to concentrate without distraction are wrong?

Because where a woman is controlled by being made to bf andvthen used as an excuse to diminish her role in society it is a feminist issue. And here she is being controlled by being made to ff in order to try and 'compete' with men as if men are to be aspired to.0, is a feminist issue.

They ar both.

Agree with others, v. interesting discussion

tethers - whilst I like my breasts for sexual things too, the posters you linked to are awful. And I can't see them win anyone over who wouldn't want to bf anyway.

Of course they are not wrong widow, but those roles have evolved in the patriarchical context which has never considered the female and her needs or the needs of integral family life.

It's hard to see how they could be arranged any differently now given the history and acceptance nd the whole structure of our society, but things needn't have evolved they way they have.

TCOB, ok, I get that you may all be pondering. To me it's straight cut, do it or don't do it, but don't blame everyone else for your decisions. Women will never be truely equal if we keep looking for reasons as to why we are oppressed. Just stop letting people oppress you. Why care what society thinks, do what you want.

Eclectic, oppression doesn't happen because people let themselves be oppressed...

That sounds very anti-intellectual, starlight

tethers, good point about the trope of "if you only had enough support" - but I never met a woman in real life who said she didn't want to. They all said that they couldn't/didn't have enough milk and I wonder how many of them basically had been shamed into saying that rather than standing by a perfectly valid choice. (Sorry if that sounds patronising, it isn't intended to be)

I think it's not as easy as that eclectic, choice is hard, so I chose to stay off work longer to bf and have more time with my dc and so my career has suffered, is that fair enough or not?

If I want to bf in a shopping centre without feeling embarrassed or self conscious is that a feminist issue?

Well I must admit I have no idea what anti-intellect is, but I don't think it takes an incredible amount of imagination to see an alternative world/society where chikdrearing is valued and a part of a developing society/culture than something that has to be removed from it.

WW the only woman I know who openly said she chose ff from the start was French, they don't have the same hangups for the most part I think. All of my other friends went down the milk ran out route which just perpetuates other bf myths.

I must confess I dont understand it, I will openly admit to people that my parenting needs work, that i shout too much and am not consistent, things that my dc will carry with all their lives and affect them much more than how they were fed for 6 months.

I can only speak for myself WW, but I didn't want to!

However, first time around I quantified my decision with reasons I couldn't because I felt unable to say that I did not enjoy it and it made me miserable- this time, I don't even bother justifying my decision. I do not want to breastfeed.

It doesn't sound patronising, BTW, I also wonder how many women do as I did because they feel as if a decision they make about their own bodies has to be justified. this may also compound the idea that ffing mothers are failed bfing mothers, which is not always true.

starlight - but valuing childrearing should not mean devaluing having a career on top of it?

Absolutely not. But women who put chikdrearing first do usually jeapordise their careers.

What of a woman that wanted to bf, directly, with no expressing or bottles. What work places are set up for that? Is this a lifestyle choice?

There is certain,y plenty of research to suggest that direct bfing is optimal.

*I think it's not as easy as that eclectic, choice is hard, so I chose to stay off work longer to bf and have more time with my dc and so my career has suffered, is that fair enough or not?

If I want to bf in a shopping centre without feeling embarrassed or self conscious is that a feminist issue?*

My career has suffered too but I chose to dedicate some of my life to my children. Nothing can prevent the fact that women have to give birth. You can get a nanny...people who get on in jobs dedicate their lives to working.

Bf in public should be accepted but sometimes people differ in what they find acceptable. It's not a feminist issue it an issue In society. I have bf on public, as have my friends, feeling self conscious is your issue not down to other people being disapproving. Ignore them, that's the only way to break outdated rules and create new ones. Moaning about them won't change anything. Action is required.

Whilst babies are very small and not asking for much more than milk and cuddles that's probably possible. Once they're a bit older and mobile and vocal it's a different ballgame.