Breastfeeding and Feminism

[WidowWadman]

Someone mentioned it on the Patriarchy Thread, but I think it deserves a thread of its own.

Breastfeeding is getting a lot of positive coverage with "breast is best" and similar slogans, and I think anything which encourages access to support is great.

At the same time, there's no doubt about it, breastfeeding is tying women down, at least for the initial months, in a way that bottlefeeding doesn't.

Now I've BF'd my first child for 18 months, and have been BFing my second for a year now with no idea how long I'll continue.

Once established, I find it harder to quit than to keep going, even though I seriously wish sometimes she'd just wean herself. I felt the same with No2.

I'm a bit ambivalent about it - I like the fact that it's free, helps to shed weight, and that it means less washing up and sterilising. I'm just really not sure about the ideology thing.

I think women should be getting support if they want it, and that includes access to space for pumping while at work, but I don't like how mothers who choose not to are being made feel guilty. And I'm seriously not sure whether the benefits aren't overstated by the pro-BF lobby.

In a way, a woman who doesn't breastfeed can enjoy freedom much earlier than one who does, so the overzealous promotion of BF (as shown in the endless breast vs bottle arguments), seems sometimes a bit anti-woman to me. It all points into the whole essentialist gender role crap again, doesn't it?

So what is the 'proper' feminist stance, if there is one?

Yes I agree Vashti formula companies do seem to be much better regulated in the Uk.
You could argue then the feminist approach, while supporting choice, could actually be formula positive in terms of promoting women returning to the workforce and encouraging equal paternal involvement in childcare.
Especially as some benefits have been overstated for babies in the developed world. Just musing really.

Of course giving birth is a feminist issue, eclectic, I'm surprised you think otherwise.

Like infant feeding choices, giving birth and in what way seems to be hugely political, with deeply entrenched positions, of what is acceptable for a woman to do and what not.

If you read 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' it explains the historical context of how it has been used to control women.

This book and Michael odent also point to the cultural differences between places with a high prevalence of bfing and low, with the higher being more social and community orientated, and the lower prevalence individualistic, selfish and competitive.

It's suggested that where bfing is reduced, female hormones are also reduced. In particular oxytocin. Making for a male hormone dominated society.

BTW I bf both my DCs.

Widow - The Politics of Breastfeeding is a fascinating read, and challenges the patriachal society a lot. E.g. why are workplaces set up so that it is unacceptable for babies to be with their mothers, why can working not be more flexible?

But men and women are not equal in terms of responsibility for an unborn baby and newborn. We have different roles. Men and women cannot be equal on all life's scenarios, we are biologically different.

Can't believe that people don't see how your baby is fed as being a feminist issue. First of all there is the fact that men thought women and their breastmilk weren't good enough for babies. Hence formula, hence loss of breastfeeding knowledge, hence the comparative rarity of bfing nowadays.

Then there is the lack of support (and knowledge) post birth for mothers who want to breastfeed.

Then there is still a rarity of bfing in public and still a wariness/dislike of it.

Then there is the sexualization of breasts (which is a comparatively modern phenomena).

Then there is the pressure on women to bf (but with little support) as opposed to ff.

And then if you look at ff then there is a whole host of little punishments penalties for women who formula feed. The most ridiculous one I heard of being no Tesco clubcard points for buying formula.

We, I'm obviously missing something. Please explain how giving birth is a feminist issue? Have I misunderstood feminism?

at the tesco points thing!

eclectic men can't get pregnant or give birth, right, but apart from that - breastfeeding is the only thing which gets in the way of mothers and fathers being equal when it comes to caring for a newborn (that and the lack of paternity leave over here).

EM, I don't think there is anything particularly feminist about women returning to the workplace when they have young children, or in equal parenting. But I do agree that the existence of formula milk gives women more choice, and in some cases saves lives.

But all these men who slope off out, because the woman is breastfeeding, couldn't they be cleaning the house, washing clothes, bathing children, doing the shopping etc? Breast feeding is hardly the only thing that needs doing in a family.

Redhot I think it only gives them an out if they were that way inclined already tbh. I think the outcome would have been the same no matter how the baby was fed.

As to the feminist formula positive position, that goes to the very heart of what you believe feminism to be for - is it to create a level playing field where we can all work ourselves into the ground for a wage equally or is it to celebrate what makes women different and ahem ultimately superior to men.

So are we saying men want to prevent bf? If you let a man or society prevent you bf, you really will let anything influence you.

ES, of course giving birth is a feminist issue! Death due to pregnancy and childbirth is twice as high in the USA as here. How can that not be a feminist issue? It is a health issue that applies only to women.

Men and women are different - but that can and should mean equal. I know that when my DH left the baby and I to BF it was not an escape but a definite feeling of being sidelined in one respect, whereas in another i.e. going to work, it was because as I was raising my game in new and unchartered ways at home, he needed to raise them at work for the time I was off and punch above his weight in terms of earning power. All new roles but both utterly critical. HOWEVER this of course changes wih the child's age and I would fiercely welcome a world which championed women as mothers but also as workers without the former being to the detriment of the latter.

eclectic - is it not a feminist issue when women are denied choice of how they want to give birth? Is it not a feminist issue when they are either scared out of choices, or vilified for making choices or people are actively complaining about choices being opened up to women?

eclectic men can't get pregnant or give birth, right, but apart from that - breastfeeding is the only thing which gets in the way of mothers and fathers being equal when it comes to caring for a newborn (that and the lack of paternity leave over here).

I understand this but it is down to biology. I still don't understand why giving birth is a feminist issue? I'm not fluent in all things theoretical about feminism so I would appreciate some help.

youbroke "As to the feminist formula positive position, that goes to the very heart of what you believe feminism to be for - is it to create a level playing field where we can all work ourselves into the ground for a wage equally or is it to celebrate what makes women different and ahem ultimately superior to men. wink"

I guess that's the pudels kern. I'm interested in the level playing field and really not interested in celebrating differences. Especially when these difference disadvantage me.

I agree with Vashti - whilst I BF our children, their father did other parenting/home stuff.

He washed clothes, cooked meals, bathed children and didn't spout crap about breasts 'being for him' - something a lot of men still do.

eclectic I don't think it's saying 'men' as a homogenous group want to stop BFing, just that there can be mixed feelings from them about their partners breastfeeding and certainly that there is a power about it that removes them from the picture entirely in some ways. And the element that sees breasts as sexual playthings only cannot be denied.

Men created the un-bf-friendly working environment.

In the past in many cultures women controlled the means of production and their babies fitted into that.

Eclectic, it isn't particularly theoretical.

People should have the health care they need. Women should have it and men should have it.

Women need a different kind of health care to men because women get pregnant and give birth. If they don't get adequate and appropriate health care, some of them will die.

Ensuring that pregnant women do not die due to unequal health care is a feminist issue, and is in the declaration of human rights!

ES, of course giving birth is a feminist issue! Death due to pregnancy and childbirth is twice as high in the USA as here. How can that not be a feminist issue? It is a health issue that applies only to women.

Yes and everything should be done to make it safer and is being done by medical profession, probably mainly male.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point, I'm trying, but you need to spell it
Out for me.

As women, we are at risk from certain things, how is that down to unequal rights? It's biology surely?

starlight Sorry, but I disagree. On occasion, when the kids are ill I work from home. It's not possible for me to be as productive quality and quantity wise when I have to tend to a child at the same time. And the child doesn't get the right level of attention either. That's nothing to do with patriarchy or men "controlling the means of production" - but all with it being bloody impossible to concentrate properly on whatever you have to do whilst there's a child asking for attention.

Yes I agree the feminist approach I would like to see is pro choice, and breastfeeding should not exclude partners from equal parenting, it didn't mine.

I was just thinking about the way the pressure to do the right thing for the baby,(breastfeed, long maternity leave etc) could disadvantage some women in the workforce due to the current patriarchal set-up. Of course I would like to see this changed, but as it stands now,breastfeeding longterm could make working women's lives more difficult.

widow surely there can never be a truly 'level playing-field' - just one where there are peaks and troughs on both sides? And why does the 'level' always seem to imply women being the same as men rather than vice versa e.g. women stopping BFing rather than men trying to start? (okay silly example but YKWIM hopefully...).Or the male-created archetype of working hours being imposed on everyone else rather than the historically more flexible female way?