Where do me opinions fall?

[sereneswan]

I'm not an 'active' feminist. I just have my opinions and do the odd bit of reading online. My opinions aren't formed by any particular body of feminist thinking because I'm not really versed in it.

I'm feel particularly strongly about the expectations placed on the appearance of women, and my attitude is along the lines of 'if the boys don't have to do x, it's probably a load of oppressive nonsense'. Hence I have a very visceral dislike of heels, make-up, shaving etc. It's just a personal thing - that gets my goat more than a lot of other stuff. I don't really know why. Probably because my mother is incredibly appearance focussed and put a lot of pressure on me to look a certain way, and also because I don't wear make-up and get totally fed up with people thinking I should or treating me like I'm odd because of it.

My opinions extend to feeling that women who do do this stuff are 'letting the side down' and betraying women as a whole.

Anyway, everything I read suggests that my views are utterly outdated, if not downright unreasonable and I'm 'anti-femme' which apparently makes me horrible and now it's all about 'lipstick feminism'. Apparently the only reason women do this is for themselves and it has nothing to do with the fact that society generally expects it of them. (Frankly I don't buy this but I accept that I'm in a minority on that).

So, are my views fairly extreme?

Actually, I posted that about the football just after the camera panned around the England crowd. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. I don't think the fans are following the footballers, are they?

I do think the suits and ties stipulation is nonsense, btw. And thankfully dying out, slowly. Although I have a hunch that trend is not always welcomed.

To the OP - I think you are probably of Rad Fem leanings. A great book on this subject is "Beauty and misogyny" by Sheila Jeffreys which I would definitely recommend you read.

According to research the global forecast for men's grooming products is to reach over $33 billion by 2015.

Men are buying into it as it's no longer seen as a 'feminie' trait to take care of your appearence. There are far more men in the gym trying to achieve the 'perfect' ripped torso, which they think appeals to members of the opposite sex and many more stores have popped up which are geared towards selling men's clothing

LibraDog

Thank you. It is now in my Amazon wishlist!

No-one makes a free choice. We don't have freedom: we have agency (which is the power to make choices). But the options that we choose are dictated by the society in which we reside, the family we grew up in, the subculture we identify with, etc etc. My choice to be a feminist isn't a free choice; my choice to wear make-up and shave my legs (or not) isn't a free choice. They're just a choice. If I lived in a different society my choices would be quite, quite different.

The footballer's girlfriend presumably posed in her pants because our society rewards women who do that. Her reward was the millionaire footballer, the pictures themselves, the good feeling she probably gets when she looks at them because our society values women on their looks over any other quality. I don't blame her for choosing her choice: the patriarchy is bigger than she is. I blame the patriarchy for making that choice the best choice for many women and thereby creating a beauty standard that is unrealistic, ageist, sexist and racist.

Oh, and classist. There was a very telling article by a woman who was one of the first editors of Zoo (or Nuts, I forget which). She described an office full of men, and herself, all of whom were middle class, all of whom were making a fortune out of working-class girls posing semi-naked and all of them HORRIFIED at the prospect of their wives, daughters, sisters or any other nice middle class female friends following suit. 'Nice' girls don't get their kecks off in Zoo, you see - that's for working-class girls who are presumably thick and have no other option. How delightful.

I think those were very eloquent posts, Victor. I have bookmarked this thread so I can use them as a basis to argue this very point.

Hi sereneswan, just wanted to say that feeling let down when a woman engages in patriarchy-pleasing behaviour is understandable. I can feel it too. But, I know what to blame.

And psst...a free version of Beauty and misogyny was linked to on another thread.