Sexual harassment in the world of video gaming

[Empusa]

Article here

"The world of video gaming has a problem with sexual harassment. The number of women gamers is growing fast - in the US they now make up 42% of the total - but it remains a macho environment, where women are often exposed to abusive language."

Some of the comments are beyond vile!

Though I do have to say, IME it tends to be limited to certain types of games, and is much more prevalent on one particular platform. And in both those cases it tends to be the norm to hear/read discriminatory comments, particularly sexist and racist.

What I do find disturbing is the fact that users can send messages like "You are a dumb slut, you stupid whore, I would rape you..", be reported, and still be allowed to play with no consequences.

I'm really glad to hear that more women are gaming now, hopefully the more women there are, the more seriously game companies will have to take the comments like above.

Oh look, at Dirty Talk Voice Sex Lounge you can perform live on webcam for up to 70 people and get $L1000! That's nearly £2!

My ds plays online on xbox live and has come across both racism and homophobia amongst his playing 'friends'. He always reports and defriends, so he never has to play with them or hear them again (our consoles are all in our living room as we are a gaming family so we can hear this sort of thing kick off). Which is better than if he comes across this sort of thing at school as there's no way of really effectively ignoring people that you have to spend time with and the same tactics could lead to difficult confrontations which he might not be ready for yet (he is 13).

I can understand that it's very annoying to know that people that have said appalling things haven't been kicked off, but you don't actually have to play with them again, as there are millions of players to choose from.

if you click on the world map and scroll out it's like the size of holland

I agree with you here, it's a huge place and is constantly changing, a bit like the internet as a whole. Just like the internet, it's largely driven by the sex industry but there's still loads of places you could hang out and not come across anything offensive apart from the occasional griefer.

Would you be happy for your OH to sit next to you and watch while you spend an evening at Dirty Talk Voice Sex Lounge? I suggest she makes her own account and hangs out with you so it properly sinks in that all these cartoons are actual people. Maybe she'd like to perform on webcam for £2, or be sold to a complete stranger for two hours? What's the going rate for that, by the way?

Not sure sleaze is hidden in a dark corner on SL, not unless it's changed dramatically since I last used it. My main memory of it was that it was full of areas where avatars could simulate sex, that seemed to be the sole purpose of it. I saw so many torture/bondage devices, pornographic images, virtual prostitution.. it was endless. It may not be all about sex, but I'd say a huge proportion of it is.

Xbox Live does seem to be the worst place for sexist/homophobic/racist abuse, unfortunately it seems to be full of idiots people all trying to outdo each other with vileness.

"I can understand that it's very annoying to know that people that have said appalling things haven't been kicked off, but you don't actually have to play with them again, as there are millions of players to choose from."

The problem with this is that when there is no punishment for abuse it seems as if it is acceptable. And although your son may block people who are abusive, a lot of players wont, and some will learn to be abusive. Also the more abusive players who are left on the server the more the abuse escalates as they all try to outdo each other.

The abusive language isn't an integral part of gaming.

I've played plenty of games without it, PC based MMORPG's tend (IME) not to be so bad. I know I've never had any abuse in any I've played, and I'm openly female on them. I know that in some other games female players feel the need to conceal their gender to avoid sexist comments.

gor, dolcette, women on leashes, slave auctions

this is BDSM, and it's consentual, you might not like it, but it has nothing to do with sexism, it's sexuality, and there are as many men on leashes as women, if you say the dominatrix is actually being used for mens perverted fantasys, then the submissive women are actually useing their doms in the same way, the difference is, the male doms are only too keen to oblige where the female dommes are generaly not interested unless they are being paid, with a few exceptions. i have voice chatted with many submissive women in SL and they have found BDSM Role play in SL a real release for their compulsion, you can dislike it, fine, but if you want to supress peoples sexuality it will become a pent up problem for the that person, and probobly make them very unhappy not to mention frustrated. BDSM is a dangerous game but no one can physicaly hurt you in SL, and it's anonimous, so people feel they can safely let thier fantasys run wild, i think this is a good thing.

as for ubiquitus strippers and pole dancers, i think many people have exhibisonist fantasies, but have you been to one of those strip joints? they are allways empty, loads of female avatars stripping and pole dancing and maybe one sad guy who cant get a girlfreind even in SL, but the fact is, when you've seen one naked avatar and you have seem them all. most of the female freinds i have in SL have treid these places but soon got bored. if the very presence of strippers is sexist then you have better hold the women who pole dance to an audience of one or none responsable, assuming you think women can be sexist.

i agree with you about the men pretending to be lesbiens, men who desire to be desired in the same way a women can be are usually not gay. the fact that (according to LL) 14.4% of female avatars are powerd by men is very irritating, you never know if the woman your flirting with actually has hairy balls swinging between her RL thighs, and there are so many lesbiens in SL, a disproportunatly high figure compared to RL, this will be partly due to hetro women who may have allways harboured fantasies about sex with another woman but mostly it's sad little men with dress fixations who think that they are the only gender-bender in SL, but, in a kind of devine retribution, they mostly end up shagging each other.
if a BDSM misstress never voice chats and is only interested in female subs, you know whe's a guy in RL

whats wrong with a bunch of dancing children?, children are not allowd to play SL, all those children are adults engaging in childhood fantasies, it reeks of peadophillia! i certainly hope a RL child never go's to SL to hang out with those pervs.

as for freebiee boxes full of bdsm gear, it's only sexist if it's only use on one sex, if's it's used on both it cant be sexist, consenting adults and all that?

ohh forgot to say, dolcette is a very odd fantasy, not one of mine, but i dont judge others, as long as it's between consenting adults. but it's not exactly popular, quite a niche really.

Was on SL for a very short time. I'm not even going to get into why BDSM or stripping in SL is so problematic. Just to say that the fake lesbians in SL are very very easy to spot. They are a man's idea of a fantasy lesbian, not the real thing.

i heard the radio 4 documentory about sexism in the online world, there is no doubt that what those guys were saying was small-minded mysogeny ( i wish i could spell) . and probobly because they had their asses kicked in a game and were then insulted to find out it was a woman. their online anonimity allowd them to vent what they really were feeling, i doubt they would have done that in public , offline.

but, ( yes, here comes the but ( and maybe a little mansplaining)) i think it's inportant to distinguish sexuality from abusive behavoir.
many people feel the need to be abused by someone they trust, in a safe, sane and consentual setting, an astonishing number of people infact. it isnt for everyone, some people just dont get it and they can become judgemental, but their arguments highlight their total misunderstanding.

Sorry this is long ...

I'm not talking about whether it's consensual, I'm saying it's sexist. You could argue that RL BDSM is not sexist because there are as many male as female subs (different thread and good luck with that) but that is simply not true in SL. It's like when BDSM practices cross over into mainstream porn - suddenly it's all about men abusing women (and yes there will be exceptions but they're exceptions).

Saying it's sexuality is neither here nor there. Some people are turned on by all sorts of weird shit. It's very dangerous to suggest you can just slap a label of 'sexuality' on something and it's no longer up for discussion. Things like Gor and Dolcett are cultural products (in this case they originate from a series of very bad SF novels and some very sick drawings respectively). Somebody made and disseminated them on purpose. Of course we can discuss whether they are sexist. Would you really like to argue that John Norman's novels are not sexist?

so people feel they can safely let thier fantasys run wild, i think this is a good thing

I don't think it is safe. I know you can always log out and it's all consensual and bla bla bla, but there are more types of harm than just physical. I met a lot of damaged women in SL. Apparently a lot of men fantasise about torturing, raping and enslaving women. Lovely. I don't think it's a good idea to let those sorts of fantasies run wild (or paedophilic fantasies come to that, and I'm curious why you think one is OK and the other isn't - after all, it's all just consenting adults abusing cartoons isn't it? ).

child avatars - there are loads of reasons to create one, not least because it's bloody good fun and is a way of avoiding the massively sexualised side of SL for a lot of people. Are you aware that some Linden employees have child avatars? I could write at length on this but I think it's a derail from the thread topic.

There seems to be a problem when people who are basically in SL for sex start judging everything on the grid in terms of its suitability in a sexual context. How about visiting a few university sims or science sims? Why not take some building classes? Get a vehicle and explore the road network? Go fishing or sailing? Go to a gig, exhibition or conference? Have a look at what the disability groups and charities have achieved there?

if a BDSM misstress never voice chats and is only interested in female subs, you know whe's a guy in RL - oh this reminds me of something that is actually on topic - there's enormous pressure on women to do voice (and webcam) to 'prove' they are female. Many women prefer to avoid voice altogether because that's where a lot of abusive harrassment happens and it's harder to report because there's no record. Some also eventually cotton on that they are being led down a path to become webcam performers at bargain basement prices. It all starts becoming a bit too real at that point.

Basically, you can look at sims or land parcels in SL as 3D websites - the land owner decides what content to host, which could be anything. You choose which places to visit just as you choose which sites to visit on the wider web. If you're hanging around at Dirty Talk Voice Sex Lounge, you're hanging around on a live sex chat website with webcams and it matters not a jot that you dress up as a cartoon in order to do so. You didn't answer my question about whether you'd be happy for your OH to join you in your adventures.

i'm sorry, i'll try to answer your question:
i'm not sure wether she would approove, she certainly wouldnt want to join in, she finds it all a bit sad. but if she did, and i was happy with that would that make it/me/her sexist? if i diddnt want her to join in would that make it/me/her sexist?

i agree with you john normans novells are crap but are they sexist? if they are then 'venus in furs' is also sexist gor explores maledom and venus in furs explors femdom, 'the cliaming of sleeping beauty' explores both in a strange medievil world where there are dom/mes and subs of both sexes.

i said you cant be hurt physicaly, i agree with you, if someone gets inside your head they can also do some damage. i wonder how many men get off on tourtureing women actually, the submissive girls kneel waiting for RP to happen, the doms are mostly oppertunists desperatly trying to work out what the female subs actually want, when they work that out it probobly appears that they get off on violence. of course there are real disturbed sadists out there, but i doubt BDSM RP in SL with suit them

I don't think it's a good idea to let those sorts of fantasies run wild (or paedophilic fantasies come to that, and I'm curious why you think one is OK and the other isn't - after all, it's all just consenting adults abusing cartoons isn't it? ).

well the difference is quite clear to me , bdsm is consenting men and women exploring adult material
when an adult dons the guise of a child in order to get his or her kicks thats alltogether different...surely you see this?, if your saying no children are not actually involved and it's a vicimless crime the same could be said for child porn from the 60's , as a material it causes no pain to anyone in 2012 but quite rightly everyone i know would find it criminal.

there is pressure on women in SL to 'voice verify' this is true, and it really isnt there fault, it's the fault of the men who want to be women, i think for some of them being female in SL is the best thing that ever happend to them but consequently every female avi is under suspicion until i hear a womans voice, and then she has to whistle so i know she isnt voice morphing ( do i sound paranoid?) i disagree with you that it's the slippery slope to performing on webcam, thats a choice and everyone can say no.
i honestly havent heard sexist abuse in voice on SL, but i take your word for it , especialy after hearing that documentery.

you can say it's bad taste/licentuius/crap/sad/boring/overtly sexualised etc and i may or may not agree, but to say it's sexist?....no sorry, it isnt.

come on pubes , i'm waiting for a reply!

Coming to this thread a bit late, and possibly saying something very obvious...

You can play online only with your friends on an xbox. Being online does not mean that teenage boys or girls are going to be exposed to random internet people. DS plays online with his friends and I would be very unhappy if his settings allowed him to play with a bunch of random strangers. There are clearly safety issues with young people there.

So you're hanging out on a live sex chat site watching other women perform on webcam and you don't know if your OH would approve? Wow.

i agree with you john normans novells are crap but are they sexist?

Yes, I'd say writing 30 novels about how women's natural state is as sexual slaves to men is sexist. Actually I'd say it was extreme woman-hatred.

Yes, I'd say writing 30 novels about how women's natural state is as sexual slaves to men is sexist. Actually I'd say it was extreme woman-hatred.

so the question is ....is venus in furs also sexist?

clearly you find maledom sexist not to so with D/s sexuality, do you feel the same about femdom?

btw, dirtytalk is an american run sim, the webcam stuff happens once a week in the middle of the night for me and from what i have heard it's a bunch of guys jacking off, hardly ever a woman in sight, but, i've never seen it.

Has anyone linked to this yet?

You do realise that Norman wrote those novels as a direct response to second wave feminism?

There are lots of places in the world where women are treated and regarded not that differently to women in gor. When some feminists talked about this stuff, Norman felt compelled to write an 'ironic' response. 30 volumes describing in detail and eroticising the subjugation of women through sexual violence - 30 volumes mansplaining how this is the natural and right order of things (he's big on philosophy). I must say that's a lot of irony for one man.

Except it's clear from his personal message on this page that he wasn't being ironic at all. In fact, he regards gorean communities as 'occasional enclaves of rationality, and honesty, a few scattered pockets of health and sanity'

I'm not going to talk about SL any more on this thread. The more I think about it, the more I think it was my time in SL that finally reawoke my feminism after the 'postfeminist' wastelands of the 90's. I have too much to say about it for somebody else's thread. Sorry OP.

Widow - thanks for that link. I'm pleased she's found enough backers and look forward to seeing the results of her research.

you still havent answerd my question.

i never got into gor in SL, seemed to me that it was lots of empty sims.
i cant speak for norman but his female followers ( many of whom have passed buy the sims i do frequent) are in no doubt that it's absolutly not the natural order of things, it's a fantasy rp with a begining and an end.

There are lots of places in the world where women are treated appallingly, it makes me sick to hear about FGM and female infantaside , no education for girls ETC, but none of that has anything to to with intelegent women enjoying a submissive fantasy in a safe envviroment.

i had no idea why he wrote it, i actually dont know very much about Gor, the story of O thyme is more where i go, but there seems the same type of people, many have been in gor before they come to the story of O.

Charlie Brooker's written a brilliant piece about this