When (and why) did what used to be known as Feminism become labelled Radical Feminism?

[RulersMakeBadLovers]

A very incisive feminist pointed this out to me the other day.

S'all very interesting (MN should have a chin-stroking emoticon)

I can't give a one-word answer when we have differing definitions of the subject matter.

As for the rest - nice twisting of words. Seems I'm not the only one who's good at that.

Also, giving people choice, in my book means, allowing them to exercise choice without criticising them for it.

A man who beats up his wife and exploits her domestically isn't doing so because he lives in a capitalist system

The word wife is really important here because women were free from monogamous committed relationships with individual men right up until we started to settle on the earth and develop agriculture and coinage. That is not to say that some tribes didn't encourage monogamy but it was far less common.

No one is criticising people for making choices but it is totally acceptable to criticise the choice itself and question why someone might make those choices.

dittany - I'm not criticising your choice to be a radical feminist, I'm only criticising hate speech and bigotry. Nothing to do with you, or feminism. Because it's perfectly possible to be feminist without hate speech or bigotry.

I don't see any hate speech in anything dittany has written. Are you trying to silence all debate WW?

So we'll all trundle off and make free choices with no discussion about the wider implications, how very selfish and individualistic that would be.

chairman - If you want to translate hating male violence, rape and opppression as a fundamental dislike of the opposite sex, go ahead. Feminists are kind of used to being called man haters. Much easier than recognising the real oppression that feminists are criticising and trying to fight.

meow don't be silly

I think criticism of others is absolutely fine. I have women who are all nice nice to the face of others in a very pathetic kind of way. Let us have much more female testosterone on this planet and then women could seize leadership roles and leave men to do the dishes.

it is not hate speech to say most violenec on the planet is by men and most of the prison population is male. It's a fact. It's like saying black youths in London commit more crime than whites or women get better A level results than men. People may not like these facts but it's not wrong to state them. We should certainly always look into the causes of them of course.

Agreed Xenia

eats , i hate male violence, rape and oppression

the radfems and the MRA's do have alot in common, like it or not, they both distrust the opposite sex at best, there speaches borders on hate speach. and, most inportantly whatever the subject matter, it's what makes them look good and the opposite sex bad that they focus on, there is very little inpartial thought going on.

most violenec on the planet is by men and most of the prison population is male
yes and men are more likely to get time off for good behaviour. As it stands, most women who commit any crime that involves any degree of violence are sectioned under the mental health act and rarely see the light of day again. Why? because gender stereotyping means that women are not allowed to be angry or to assert themselves, when and if they do, they are duly labelled mad.

As for women who are nice being equated with pathetic, words fail me. Whilst more men need to do their share of the dishes, I'd hate to live in a world where men became the exploited class.

Meow, don't draw other's in so you can bash other posters. It's bullying.

chairman - IME women become radical feminists because they get fed up of the rubbish about lap dancing and prostitution being empowering and feminist. Wanting to fight and challenge male oppression is not teh same as hating the opposite sex or being like an MRA.

I find Dittany is insightful and makes clear points. I would never believe any post criticising another MNer unless that MNer was on the thread to defend herself or I had read the context in which it was posted.

Someone could criticise me here by saying - Eats said that all radical feminists should kill some male babies every week.

well eats , i cannot speak for all men but i wopuld hazzard a guess that the cast majority of men dont think that lap dancing or prostitution are impowering for women.

where i compare the MRA's to the radfems is indeed their source motivation and i'm sure some radfems come to their ideoigys from where you say in your post, but lets face it, not all, there is simply too much antipathy in the posts for that.
did you see my wave from NM's?

thats would and vast
i'm deslecxic and too lazy to look for a dictionary.

Don't attack other MNers when they are not on a thread to speak up or at least post a link so we can see if the criticism is valid or as I suspect you are just having a pop.

Many feminists do think lap dancing and porn is empowering. I was talking about feminism, not men.

I actually see radical feminists being attacked the most on here, not other women and not men. And sometimes antipathy is very justified. I have read rape myths posted as fact, people being attacked for saying true stuff like the legal definition of rape in the UK is a man raping a women so in the UK only men can rape women, etc. So I understand posters getting fed up with this.

Wave from NM?

This thread began with a question about what radical feminism is & aims for, that differs from old skool feminism. I still don't see any answers. To pursue this question is not an attack on radical feminism, unless you perceive the question "What do you stand for?" is an attack.

I am massively uncomfortable with gender stereotyping, especially when it looks about as reasoned as a nursery rhyme: "What are little girls made of?" Posters appear to be arguing, in all earnestness, that female humans are made of "sugar & spice"

garlic, I don't think that is true. My reading of the discussion here is that posters are suggesting that if we were able to move beyond a society based on male domination of women, then all human beings would be able to relate to one another in a more co-operative way.