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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Radical feminism and PIV

330 replies

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 23/05/2012 11:57

Hi just wanted to ask radical feminists and their allies their views of piv sex, I have no one I can ask in RL about this.

I can understand why PIV sex is inherently unsafe and that viewing PIV sex as the goal of sex is misogynous. But I really can't fathom the view that PIV sex is inherently abusive. Can anyone explain it very very basically? And do all radical feminists think PIV sex is inherently abusive?

Thanks

OP posts:
EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 22:55

Agree widow, the pill can be empowering.

RulersMakeBadLovers · 23/05/2012 22:55

Well, WW has articulated why. It's not rocket science, just common sense.

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 22:56

Coil?

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 22:56

So men don't face the risk of having children?

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 22:58

It's sad that people would think something as natural and important as sex is outweighed by the risks in this day and age when there are plenty of ways to take precautions.

WidowWadman · 23/05/2012 22:59

Well, statistically in penetrative sex the transmission risk of STDs is higher for the one that is being penetrated than for the penetrator. However, since statistics work on a population level and you can't predict when the transmission will occurr, not protecting yourself is always a very bad idea.

If you've got a risk of, e.g. 1 transmission in 300 episodes of intercourse, it doesn't mean that you can have 299 goes without a problem and only get the infection at the 300th time. It could happen the first, the second, the 25th, any of these episodes. And that's why it's stupid emphasising the different relative risks. Hammer the point home that risky behaviour puts himself at risk instead of trying to appeal to his morals not wanting to put her at risk.

RulersMakeBadLovers · 23/05/2012 22:59

What risk is women having a child of theirs to them Certainly not a physical one. And, judging by the CSA stats, not really a financial one either.

Alameda · 23/05/2012 23:00

or enjoy sex other than PIV

RulersMakeBadLovers · 23/05/2012 23:01

In this day and age? I take it you are speaking from a largely First World perspective?

WidowWadman · 23/05/2012 23:02

As for the risk of having children. Stop emphasising that men can walk out. It's like they're being presented with the option. Make walking out and not supporting your children utterly condemnable. Repeat the idea that unprotected sex carries the risk of children to both people involved, not the idea that it's only a problem for one of them.

How on earth is society supposed to change if instead of challenging ideas they're just perpetuated so they can serve as whinge-fodder?

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:03

Enjoy sex other than PIV? What reasoning is behind that?

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:04

Fully agree with widow. Any decent man has the same responsibilities towards his child as the mother.

WidowWadman · 23/05/2012 23:06

There's plenty of enjoyment to be had without penetration, that's true. And I think it's not wrong to promote the fact that you can have a hell of a lot of fantastic sex without penetration. But that shouldn't be promoted by saying penetration is bad. Just that penetration is not the only or best way of having good sex is the right message.

Have penetrative sex if and when you feel like it, just don't forget to explore the other stuff too.

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:06

Seriously, if you honestly think you're helping feminism, you are sorely mistaken. It seems to me like you believe something and you just need others to believe it to validate it. I don't.

SeaHouses · 23/05/2012 23:07

Notenoughsocks, you apologised to me earlier in the thread, but I don't know what you are apologising for!

Alameda · 23/05/2012 23:08

Enjoy sex other than PIV? What reasoning is behind that?

it's nice now and then but it's no good unless you're heterosexual is it, and even then surely that isn't all that happens sexually?

FrothyTheCrazyFeminazi · 23/05/2012 23:10

Re the Pill.

This is from the pack of pills I'm on.

"breast cancer has been found slightly more often in women who take the pill than women of the same age who do not take the pill"

Regarding Thrombosis..."the risk is higher in pill users than in non-users"

So, y'know... No serious possible consequences of taking the pill...

Add to that, one of the pills I was on brought me out in hives. All caused weight changes (usually gain). And all caused mood changes. This set has caused acne...

Nowt wrong with hormonal contraception, they say...

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:11

It's all down to personal preference. You can't generalise and the generalisation in that article is aborant. Surely, anyone who thinks critically knows its not just as simple as saying PIV is abusive. That's childish thinking. It worries me that seemingly intelligent people are looking to understand the benefits of extremist views that denigrate others rights.

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:12

It's about context... If your a lesbian, obviously it doesn't apply neccesarily.

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:14

frothy I think you'll find if you read the information given with any drug, even paracetamol or cancer drugs, they say all the side effects. Such is life :)

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:15

Context, is the key...

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:21

I personally really think radical feminism is as dangerously as radical Islamists or radical scientologists. Life is complex and no matter how much you want to explain life with an ideally, it won't happen.

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:22

Unless you blind yourself to the real life facts and evidence all around you.

SeaHouses · 23/05/2012 23:23

This writing that was linked to seems to be based on reading Dworkin's Intercourse. Now, I admit that I have only read two chapters of Intercourse, but it was nothing like what that article makes it out to be. Perhaps I read the wrong chapters, but what it seemed to be doing was discussing how sex is described in literature, and then how Dworkin thinks sex should be, which was all a bit Devendra Banhart.

I don't know how it has gone from a book that critiques how sex is presented negatively in various elements of culture to people entering into a debate about the notion that all PIV is abusive, based on the blog of some random person.

So, OP (and others who might be in agreement with the OP), where have you got the idea from that feminists, or a particular type of feminist is generally of the opinion that it is always abusive?

EclecticShock · 23/05/2012 23:23

With an ideology that should say.