Am I imagining a 'trend' of excusing misogymy with a lay diagnosis of ASD?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

It seems to be occuring a lot. Women excusing the behaviour of their H's by announcing they must/probably have aspergers or 'traits'.

It is insulting to people with ASD, insulting to women and probably insulting to the men in question.

"Why have such scores of lovely, gifted girls
Married impossible men?
Simple self-sacrifice may be ruled out,
And missionary endeavour, nine times out of ten.

Repeat "impossible men": not merely rustic,
Foul-tempered or depraved
(Dramatic foils chosen to show the world
How well women behave, and always have behaved).

Impossible men: idle, illiterate,
Self-pitying, dirty, sly,
For whose appearance even in City parks
Excuses must be made to casual passers by"

Robert Graves- from memory, so forgive any mustards!

Or even mistakes!

What was his answer?

I think it was an open question!

I married without expecting that I'd change him much.
But it is a relationship built on mutual interests and logic.
And long extensive bouts of hedonistic sex of course. He's always enjoyed getting things right.

I just don't understand why some women put up with ignorant, abusive and uncaring relationships, then blame it on ASD traits.
It's not an excuse, if he is on the spectrum it is a key to effect change.
If he isn't then his attitude should be challenged rather than tolerated with a martyred air and an expectation that nothing can be done but leave. Prats shouldn't be helped to be prats.

TheWoman why did you get flattened?

Is this a feminist issue?

There don't seem to be many comments from the usual feminist posters.

Starlight It was a thread where the Op said ASD traits and I assumed undiagnosed and said he was being a cock. Others assumed it meant he was diagnosed and therefore unable to do/know differently. I took a pasting in the end.

I think its a feminist issue because it is being used to mask clearly abusive behaviour. It may be that some of these men have ASD but that isn't an excuse legally and it shouldn't be an excuse within a relationship either. I think its actually quite a frightening trend because it allows misogynists to continue being misogynists whilst men with ASD become "undateable" by women worried about their possible behaviour. It's a double edged myth that damages men with ASD and women in abusive marriages.

I remember that thread last month, I was one of the people disagreeing with the language you used. Rapist being one of them.
I'd rather DS was undateable by the wrong sort of partner, it would only break his heart to love someone who played mind games and wanted him to do things he really isn't capable of, then blaming him for his failure.

'A man with ASD who has sex without consent will be convicted of rape and sent to prison as should every other man. That is something all boys need to be taught; regardless of whether or not they have ASD. '

No disagreement there, I hid the thread so I can't go back and check what actually happened as I can't remember the minutia of what was said. However, I did not send any pms, nasty or otherwise as a consequence of the thread.

I am quite at some of the comments on this thread, similar to others that I have seen on MN.

It is obvious that no one should tolerate an abusive man.
It is also obvious that 'armchair diagnosis' can make a lot of damage to all people concerned (the woman, people with AS etc...).

However I do have a major problem to be told that my DH is an abusive twat.

I explain. Please look at these 2 situations.

Scenario 1:
You, as a couple, prepare your next holidays. You want to go and see some family on the other side of the country because one very close member of the family is seriously ill with cancer and you know it would be the last opportunity to spend Christmas with him. You discuss that with your DH who refuses saying 'it's just too much hassle'. Big argument following where yu get very angry and emotional and you end stomping upstairs telling him he is just very selfish not to agree on the trip seeing the circumstances. You also remember that your DH has always being difficult re going and seeing your family and you feel he is just very controlling.

Scenario two:
You, as a couple, are looking at the next Christmas. You want to go and see your family but you also know that your DH, who has been diagnosed with AS, is finding that sort of trip very difficult. The sheer number of people in trains etc.. at that time of the year is too much for him. You also know it is a sensitive subject. so you have a chat with him when he is relaxed and yu are both busy with something else. You avoid eye contact. You explain very clearly and in an unemotional way what is going on (your gran is over 90yo and there isn't that many christmas you will be able to spend together). You leave time for him to think and answer. Your DH completely understand and anyway would not stop you from seeing family. You find a way to make the trip as stress free as possible. Also agree to make it a bit shorter, Everybody is happy.

Now you see both scenarios have happened in my house. The first one before the diagnosis, the second after.
In the first case, if I had posted that in 'Relationship' I would have been told he was selfish and controlling. I might even be told that he is abusive just by reading 2 or 3 lines on a screen.
In the second case, both needs were taken into account. This was possible only because we both knew about AS and also we both knew the importance of doing things in a slightly different way that in an NT relationship.

But this is the same man. He didn't change from being an abusive twat to a nice guy.
What change was the diagnosis and the ability to modify our behaviours to take each others needs into account.

Now if I had listen to people here and not done 'my armchair diagnosis', look into AS, give info about AS to DH and nudge him into that direction, he would never have looked at it. He would never have asked for a diagnosis and we would probably have divorced.

Telling off a poster because they say 'Oh I think my DH has AS' isn't the answer. the answer should be:
It is something difficult to diagnose. You might want to ask your DH to do the AQ test. If he scores over 32, then he really should get a diagnosis from a professional.
What we should be happy to do is to support partner of adults who have not yet being diagnosed and don't even know about AS on how to approach the subject so that they can know for sure whether it is AS or not.

I don't think that brushing people of is going to help anyone. Neither the person with undiagnosed AS, not the one who doesn't have AS and is just a twat and certainly not the partner who is living with him and is trying to make sense of what is happening to them.

BTW, I would also like to point out that looking at an adult who knows they have AS since a child and who has had supportive parents who took time to explain how to do things etc... is a very thing than an adult with undiagnosed AS.

In the latter case, it is likely that the person will have developed coping mechanisms that are actually inappropriate.

On a partner's pov, it is also very likely that their behaviour will be misunderstood by their partner (eg the man who is making inappropriate comments to his wife such as 'You look really big in that dress' could be easily seen as insensitive)
Of course AS people can learn but that if someone at some point has bother to teach them that.

No-one is saying there aren't Undiagnosed adults out there, but the 'trend' of lay diagnosis is very worrying as well as the misinformation that comes with it.

Also, I wouldn't have classified either o your posts as especially misogynistic behaviour which is what this thread is bout.

And if someone came on and said "my OH is displaying these behaviours, I am concerned something is not right with him" that would be one thing. But generally it's "my OH is being an insensitive asshole" and people say "oh maybe he has AS."

Big difference.

Sorry, but it IS frequently brought up to excuse shitty behaviour on MN regularly now.

And, this thread isn't so much about the men I don't think, but about expectations of women from their men.

Or, this happened at the weekend, lol, my DH is SOOO aspie it's unreal!

Er, no.

Which is back to talking calmly, unambiguous language and explaining how you feel and why what was said or happened was unacceptable.Working out a way fowards through the misunderstandings, offences and upset.
Not just getting stressed and upset and fuming silently.
How can you change something if one person is oblivious to the problem?
Not by thinking 'You are an arse'

My comment isn't about people who make comments about 'today my DH is being aspie'.

it's about general reaction on MN at the moment. As soon as one writes the word AS, the everyone piles in to give their pov, want to now more to do a 'diagnosis' (No from what you are saying I can tell you he is not aspie) as if they were more able to make a judgement than the OP. Even if they have never met the man in question. Even if, sometimes , the way you write things are not really conveying the whole situation or the OP doesn't mentioned X.

It is about the woman, women who are struggling to make sense to their reality and telling them off the way they are atm isn't helping them.
It isn't helping them to see their DH is abusive if he is or that they would need support/diagnosis if it isn't.

When one is happy to make comment to the OP that she just expects her partner to read her mind, it is sending the OP back to square ne where she is the one responsible of the whole situation.
Except that AS men are known not to read visual clues that NT partner would have understood.
In the end it's not empowering for the woman. On the contrary. And that has the opposite effect than trying to support women to stand up on their won two feet.

FallenCaryatid, yes but 'talking calmly, unambiguous language' doesn't have the same meaning for an NT or an AS person.

I don't know of any NT person where I should be careful to avoif eye contact when talking about a serious subject for example. Actually that would ahve the opposite effect.

Do you think it is good for women in relationships they feel are abusive, unkind, lacking in respect or that just make them feel unappreciated to stay silent?
If someone is upsetting me, I tell them as politely and clearly as possible.
Staying silent for me makes me feel as if I'm condoning the attitude and choices of the person being inconsiderate. Accepting my position of doormat.
But then, I have teenagers. So that may also have an impact on how I see potentially lazy and rude people in my home and whether silence is a good response.

I do think it's a feminist issue- this whole business of women having to "manage" men and take responsibility for their behaviour. Like that advertisement for some food or other where the woman is talking about feeding "three fussy boys"

I've never said that women should stay silent. Nor did I say that no one on MN should make any comment.

What I am saying is that 'calm and clear comment' do not have the same meaning for an aspie or an NT person.

You might as clear as water with an NT man but it would still be a muddy message for the aspie.

I don't manage my DH though, aspie or not.

But I do have to manage my behaviour when I am with him because I can not do things exactely the same way as with other people. When i did, everyone was miserable.

So where do you draw the line?