Talk to me about song lyrics

[reddaisy]

I am just finding my inner feminist, mostly since having a DD and finding Mumsnet.

DSD had Kiss FM on at our house yesterday and there was a song called (I think) "doin it" and the lyric that jumped out at me was: "Give it to me daddy nice and slow."

I was utterly shocked. I think until I had DD, now 3, I just tuned out things like that but now I am very aware of the messages she can receive via popular culture.

I asked DSD to change the station, which she did and a Lady Gaga song was on and one of the lyrics was about not enjoying sex unless it was rough.

This is without dissecting the lyrics of Rihanna. I already ban MTV etc because all the female singers are half naked and I don't want DD to see that.

Talk to me about how society is so blase about this please and what I can do to help DSD and DD navigate their way in the world.

Interesting topic reddaisy. There are just so many messages all around that young people, well all people to be fair pick up, not always consciously, but where the misogyny is obvious when you look squarely at it.

I don't think this is a "new thing." I cringe now when I hear "Young Girl" by Gary Puckett and the Union Gap or "Does Your Mother Know" by Abba on the radio because both are basically about adult men considering sexual relationships with under age girls. Both present the children as being the initiators, the seducers of helpless, aroused adult men. The Abba song was popular when I was about 13 or 14. I remember I understood exactly what it was about, but didn't see anything "wrong" in it, iyswim, at the time.

Now though, lyrics and images in music seem so much more in your face and obvious, even more misogynistic and violent. At the risk of sounding like a right old woman (which I'm getting to be, let's be fair!), it honestly wasn't so bad "in my day."

I wish there were a simple "magic bullet" that could help boys and girls somehow be immune to these messages, but I don't think there is. It's the same with advertising. The messages ARE deliberate, to draw young people in, to sell something. Although your DCs are still really small, it's not too early to communicate in some way to them that you don't agree with some things they hear and see and why.

Interestingly enough, I wasn't much older than your DD when I remember my mother saying what she objected to about Tina Turner's stage act. She was clear that she didn't like it that men oggled her when she wore short skirts and danced in a sexually provocative way instead of enjoying her music. If I can still remember what my mum said (and she wasn't even a feminist, not by a long stretch!) then surely there's hope that your DCs can also take in messages from you that can counter balance the bombardment of sexualised, sexist images and words all around them. It's always worth trying I think! Best of luck.

Thanks for your response Kritiq. Just a quick reply to say that it makes me feel so sad about what young girls are exposed to. DSD is 15 and she has confided that although she isn`t sexually active yet, boys have openly jeered at girls at school they have supposedly had sex with for having pubic hair. They are so used to pornography that anything normal like that is now considered weird.

I find this very sad. I will look at the lyrics of the songs you mention tomorrow.

I suppose just being open and honest about issues with the DC might help them grow up without being overly influenced. Sex sells I suppose but how sad that it used to sell us everything from burgers to kitchens.

Sorry - I missed DSD and read DS (thinking another wee one!)

I work with young women in your DSD's age group, and younger, and yes, it's hard not to get completely depressed about the stuff they face and how hard it is to stand against the tide.

At the risk of sounding ancient again, when I was a teen in the 70's, yes, girls tested the waters, stretched the boundaries, tried out low cut tops and short shorts as a bit of rebellion, maybe smoked, drank a bit, flirted with older boys. But, now, that kind of sexualised appearance and behaviour aren't acts of rebellion or testing the boundaries. That's becoming the norm, the expectation, what young women feel they should be like to be properly feminine, and there's pressure from all quarters (including especially their peers) to conform. It's not about individuality, it's not about self-expression, it's not even about exploring your own sexuality really. It's now all about conformity. It's conformity "dressed up" as some kind of "liberating" choice.

Depressing as it all is, I think it's STILL worth trying, still worth both building the resilience of girls and young women (and boys, too) to question, analyse and not swallow wholesale the bull that's peddled at them all the time.

There are some good resources out there on the net that can help. Here's a couple worth looking at. Good luck!

www.achainofgirlgoodness.com/
jumpmag.co.uk/
www.pleasurevsprofit.co.uk/
www.feministwebs.com/resources/exploring-difference/

(Perhaps others will suggest more, but I've got to get to bed! :) )

Since discovering feminism I've paid much more attention to song lyrics. Deleted a lot from my iTunes :)

I've been on a bus and heard school girls singing, "Just gonna stand there and watch me burn..." Love the Way You Lie is the most revolting song I've heard in a long time. One line, "I'm gonna tie you to the bed and set the house on fire" makes me want to vomit.

I have a half-sister who is a similar age to your DSD and I try to point out lyrics and representations in videos. I try to do it in a relaxed, non-confrontational way. She easily accuses me of 'lecturing her and acting like mum'