Seeing 60 seconds of someone else's domestic violence situation made me wonder...

[AgentZigzag]

...where the message that it's a violent crime which shouldn't be tolerated, got lost.

I'm presuming this situation was a result of a domestic violence incident, although there could be another explanations to the way I've read between the lines.

I was walking towards the local Spar shop at 1.30 yesterday afternoon with my 2 YO DD, who was walking but saying she was tired. I stopped to put her in her pushchair and could see one of our neighbours who works at the Spar with an 18/19 YO girl talking to a woman on the ground.

The woman on the ground had a wet patch on her trousers, as if she'd sat in a puddle, and I could see her face was red, like really sunburnt from the distance I was at.

As I got closer our neighbour was finishing off talking to the woman, who was now standing, and we walked off from the woman together, leaving the younger woman with her.

When I was up close I could see the red was actually blood, because her face had been beaten to a pulp, literally. She had new bruises, really blue and coming up, with blood streaming down her nose, and I think the wet patch was her wetting herself.

I asked my neighbour if the police had been called, and she said the woman was pissed and when asked about the police said 'what would be the point?'. The neighbour then said she didn't know whether it was her business or not (not in an offhand uncompassionate way, but more questioning her take on the situation IYSWIM), and I said it definitely was judging by the state of her face. I was looking back all the time (a few meters away) and a man was helping her into a house, the neighbour said 'Oh, XXXX (mans name) is taking her in', and the neighbour started answering questions from other people at the Spar, so I walked off.

I can't get the woman's face out of my head, wondering how she's doing and what happened after I left. To know there's a man living close by (these weren't injuries a woman could inflict) who could be capable of that in an afternoon, even though I'm not naive and know they look 'normal', is a horrible reminder of what goes on behind closed doors.

There are two things I keep thinking about -

-What does her not seeing the point of calling the police say? Whether it's because it's happened before and her telling them was useless, or whether she didn't think they could do anything to protect her, both lead to the police not being able to effectively deal with these types of crime.

-Also, why did the neighbour wonder whether she'd be justified in ignoring the crime, weighing up whether it was any of her business? If it were an older person being punched to the extent this woman was she wouldn't have hesitated in calling them. Could the way it happened not being how some people see as a 'typical' DV incident (i.e. at night, inside etc) have skewed the neighbours judgement of what to do and made her question herself?

Sorry if it's long and the point isn't very clear, I was just surprised at my own shock seeing her face and of the significance such a small space of time can have. I know what it feels like to get a thrashing so I've seen it in the mirror, but it seemed worse somehow seeing it on someone else.

I saw the neighbour this morning and asked if she knew how the woman was.

She said she went to hospital afterwards but didn't want anyone to contact the police because she thought it'd just cause more trouble.

I was wrong, and it was as TheHouse suggested, it was actually the woman's step-daughter who'd assaulted her, the neighbour said it was a 'young girl' (not the one standing with the woman as I passed) and she saw her in the car with the woman's partner not long after.

I'm totally shocked, not because I think women aren't capable of violence, I just can't believe a woman could punch that hard for so long, by the look of the womans face. I suppose I'd be more worried if seeing that didn't shock me, and whether it was a man or woman, victim or perpetrator, doesn't make a difference in theory, but it actually does when it comes down to brass tacks.

Well, at least the woman got medical treatment. Perhaps she would have been seen by a social worker or somesuch or at least offered assistance to deal with violence in the family, as well.

Hopefully someone would have said something at the hospital about where she could get help from.

If you're still around SGB, what do you think about going against someone who's in a situation like this or similar when they say they don't want the police involved?

Should you go against them?

I know things seem black and white when you're on the outside of it, but inside, could it make the victim feel in an even more powerless position and it should be their decision whether they can deal with the inevitable extra shit police intervention would bring?

Or anyone else if they've got a minute to answer

I think if you witness a crime actually happening and call the police, fair enough. If you ring the police some time after an event which you didn't witness, when the victim has said that s/he doesn't want police involvement, the police won't be able to do anything. Hearsay isn't evidence.

Have you spoken to this woman yourself? If you are concerned about her and want to help her, the first thing to do is surely talk to her and find out what her situation actually is: at the moment you are going on rumour and supposition and kind of wringing your hands over a situation that you don't actually know anything about.

I'm not surprised a young female can do serious damage, the damage you do depends on the level of viciousness you fight with.

How awful for the poor woman to have to live with someone who is that disturbed, the physical strength that the young girl lacks is probably made up for in rage, which could explain why her injuries were so bad (or she's powered by drugs).

As to your last question, I'm not sure what I'd do in that particular situation because we never know what we would do until we are there and being faced with it without warning like you were doesn't really give you time in those few seconds to think about what is the best option.

Somebody upthread said if it was an old person we'd be calling the police and I think thats true. Any person we perceive to be vulnerable whether elderly, disabled or a child in that situation would have the police called, most of us would do it without hesitation because we would want to protect them. When it comes to an adult who seems perfectly capable of taking care of themselves if they choose, we tend to be less likely to intervene if they tell us not to, it could be rude, interfering or cause further problems for them if we failed to respect their wishes or maybe we don't care enough because there is an assumption that they have the power so must have gotten themselves into that situation and want to stay there.

I don't think ignoring it is the right thing to do though because there is still the matter of a violent and potentially dangerous individual that needs to be dealt with by the appropriate authorities.

I don't know the woman SGB, I don't even know if I'd recognise her again given the state of her face when I saw her.

The reason I asked the question about whether to call or not if someone's said they don't want you to, is because sometimes I've wanted/needed someone I don't know to call on my behalf, and other times I've turned down help and offers to call the police from passers by.

It just depended on the specific situation at the time, which made me think there isn't a right answer as to what to do, however much you'd want there to be.

Thanks for your post bobble, that's the exact word to describe it, viscious, which of course makes it frightening, even if you're just encountering it from a distance.

Maybe I'm just looking to make excuses to try and feel less guilty for doing fuck all for her.

Maybe that was the unconscious reason for the thread.

It's not just DV. I was punched unconscious in a club toilets for no reason. Maybe 10 other people in there. Nobody got help or intervened. Could I blame them? What would I have done?
Honestly I think they were all terrified. One girl was blocking the door and the sheer violence of the girl attacking me would have petrified me. I woke up to her kicking me in the head
It's right about ambulance control as well, that's my job we give information to the police if needed

It sounds like she got medical attention. There are lots of threads on mumsnet about how women and stepdaughters do or don't get on, but the bottom line is that it is a crime. it sounds as though they are sorting it out within the family.

Interesting issue - this thread started out as it appeared to be male on female violence. When it was found out that it was the step daughter did people's views change on whether it should be reported? I suppse there similar issues - woman tolerates violence from step daughter in order to keep relationship with her husband. Or may be she won't tolerate it and this is the final straw or may be she beat up the step daughter every night for 4 years. We just don't know.

As a basic principle intervene if it's safe to do so. I took a toddler walking alone by a busy road to a police station a few years ago. No one else was doing anything. Later the police called to say his parents had recovered him and he had escaped through a door and walked off on his own. He was too young to be able to tell me his name. I could have been accused of kidnapping I suppose but he could have easily walked into the road and had he been one of my children I would have wanted someone to look after him.

"these weren't injuries a woman could inflict"

really?

Didn't read whole thread... Of course women are capable of violence.