I am racking my brains here, and coming up with NOTHNG...

[Oakmaiden]

Please help me...

I am writing a dissertation on stereotyping in KS2 children, and have ground to a complete halt.

I am TRYING to think of ways to show that gender stereotyping is pervasive throughout our entire culture - but without mentioning specific things like the media, books, TV programming, advertising etc (they will come later).

All I can come up with so far is that the baby changing units is generally in the women's toilet room.

There must be more examples of mundane things that people hardly notice but which underline the gender roles in society???

Don't know if this would be relevant, but when DS was a toddler he had silky blonde hair and had/has very big blue eyes. Many people used to mistake him for a girl (fair enough), but some would say things like "Oh, those eyes are wasted on a boy!" which got on my wick.

I suppose the implication was that girls would depend upon their looks in life, whereas boys didn't need to.

Oakmaiden - there is a post of mine on here from about a year ago that links to a great study about gender and socialisation, with lots of examples. Might have been a meta-analysis. I can't find it whenever I look for it, though, so I guess it was under a name change. And the laptop I was using then has since died, taking my bookmarks with it. I found it via google scholar, I think, though it might be easier to search within this section of MN.

Girls Toys and Boys Toys aisles in shops?

What about toys shops - meccano/lego in the boys aisle, dolls in the girls? The changing unit thing though - most gents toilets have them now, certainly in family-centric establishments like restaurants, play areas, sports centres etc.

I took 9mth dd wearing blue denim hat into a shop. Assistant 'Ooh, here comes trouble. Bet he's a handful.' etc etc. Me 'She's a girl'. Assistant 'Ooh, isn't she pretty. Are you good for your mummy?'
Gah!

Maybe it's not pervasive throughout our society if you are stumped.
And you should be presenting your own ideas within your dissertation, not getting MNers to do the work for you.

Do they still make girls bikes with lower cross-bars, so that missy doesn't have to cock a leg over? Most girls I see now are in jeans anyway.

In KS2, football culture has begun. Boys play football in school (games lessons may well be divided with boys playing football, and girls rounders). Football also requires space, so to let the boys play during breaks, the area available for girls' games is compromised.

Boys have almost entirely dropped out of ballet by that time (even those who enjoyed it in the nursery/reception). Few girls take up martial arts, even though junior classes begin at this age.

Oh pfooey, Mrsruffallo.

If you don't want to be helpful, then don't be.

But don't be all "holier than though". It is a fucking research project - I have done the research, and the reading, and the findings. And I did read a really good article written for teachers of High School suggesting ways to challenge mundane stereotyping. But I am buggered if I can find it now. It could take me hours of looking. All for the sake of a simple sentence to start off the paragraph on stereotyping in society.

I have mother and baby rooms, and "men at work" signs. Whilst the toy shop thing is huge, it is too deliberate. I am trying to think of things so subtle we barely notice them. Which is why I am finding it tricky...

I think bikes are more unisex now - other than the colours...

I notice how people react to little girls (esp in a dress) with lots of praise about being pretty, while boys much more rarely get comments praising their appearance.

DD1 is in reception and the boys have told her that "girls aren't allowed to play football".

What about clothing? Boys t-shirts saying 'Trouble' or 'Little Monkey', and girls ones with pink sparkles emblazoned with 'Little Princess' or some other cobblers.

So it's a simple opening line you are looking for? How about 'When I was on Mumsnet..."

I can only speak as I found Edith, but my daughter played for the school football team. They had a girls squad, and played against half a dozen other teams in the area (Notts/Lincs). There were no sports that were girls only (my son went there too) - cross-country, hockey, lacrosse, football. They even had golf lessons available!

I do think the women-only changing is not the issue it was 10 or 20 years ago. I have seen many a dad struggling with the pampers .

When I was at school, boys did woodwork and girls did cookery. I don't remember having a choice. Is this still the case?

funnily enough it is harder to think of things that stereotype men than women.

And there is a lot less of either than there was when "i were a girl"...

I was trying to avoid talking about children specifically at this point - as I am arguing (currently) that children get their ideas about stereotyping from adult society...

On the plus side I have managed to track down that article I was looking for. Hoorah!

Men feeling it is OK to comment about women's & girls appearances on the street?
Even being told to "smile, love" is a reminder to women that they are constantly being appraised on their appearance by men

Are you going to cover street harrassment?

Mrsruffalo - yes.

I so far have :Gender stereotyping is pervasive throughout our society (REF) ? we see it every day in a multitude of mundane places and rarely think to question the ideology behind it (REF). The placement of baby changing units in female (but not male) toilets, and (men at work road signs? other examples?) all serve to remind us that the place of the woman is in the home or as a nurturer whilst man is the provider(REF).

Obviously that is not the entire argument - I am covering the evolutionary debate too - but I need to start SOMEWHERE. I will probably change it before I have finished anyway... I keep rewriting this blooming thing... Think maybe I need to change the last bit too.

I am slowly going insane here...

Women's clothing at all stages of life being more revealing/tighter than men's?

You could do it as "walking down the average high street you will see" and then put all the everyday things that people just don't notice. Something like that?

How about headscarves/ burkas? They are seen everyday by London kids at least, and it is solely women wearing them.

Advertising? Things like P&G - proud sponsor of Mum's, usually only showing Mum in adverts about anything baby related. Too obvious maybe?

you say you don't want to touch on the media but for me the everyday things as per average high street would be stuff like

women's dress being linked to sex - at one extreme or the other - either much more revealing that men or much more covered up while men get a comfotable place in the middle
lads mags on the shelves
a comment about appearance or a toot of a horn from a man driving past
people stopping to coo over a little girl in a party frock
stuff like that?

Oh, missed that bit

Look at the media. Specifically look at film posters of children's movies. Try and spot a female. Look at heroes/action figures in movies. Spot any girls? How about children's TV? Count the male vs female presenters. Do the female presenters do the traditionally female things i.e. babies, home, passive activities. What about the male presenters? Do they do the more adventurous activities? Look at children's TV programmes. How many have girls in passive, less active roles? How many of the female characters are shown as good at science/maths without it being portrayed as something geeky or a bit different?

differences in women's clothing - great. Women's is often less suitable for physical activity, and more revealing. Or in some cultures completely the opposite (as in burkas etc.).

Going to talk about the effect of advertising on children developing gender roles later.

Sardine - that was my thought - but it turns out that I just don't notice either! And no, street harassment would open a whole can of worms I don't have the word count for! I am focusing really on children developing gendered identity and stereotype knowledge - where it comes from and what effect it has on their aspirations etc.