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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Like the name says, give me my counter argument...

12 replies

makemycounterargumentforme · 16/04/2012 16:04

(If you recognise me don't out me please)

A comment was made that "The law only recognises the concept of the reasonable man, it does not recognise the concept of the reasonable woman"

I now have an opportunity to challenge/refute this - what would you say?

(Can't give too many details don't want to out myself)

OP posts:
MousyMouse · 16/04/2012 16:07

two words = equality act

SardineQueen · 16/04/2012 16:07

Um

Since it is now accepted in law that men and women are equal, the test should be a reasonable person?

It is outdated in the extreme to apply the test of a "reasonable man" as presumably that was put into place when women were not considered to be reasonable / not allowed to act on juries etc? (Sorry don't know when it came in or even what it's for!!!)

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for?

hathorinareddress69 · 16/04/2012 16:11

The test in law, in various scenarios, is the reasonable man test. FACT.

SardineQueen · 16/04/2012 16:20

How about

Since different groups have different levels of privilege, there should be no one group who gets to decide what is "reasonable" for everyone.

A reasonable man - at the time of writing would probably (again guessing) have meant a white, privileged, straight, able bodied etc etc man. Why should this man get to decide what is or isn't reasonable for everyone else? What he sees as quite reasonable may not actually be quite reasonable in the (equally valid) view of someone else.

Thus it should be the reasonable person test.

I still don't know what it is though so this is probably random!

SardineQueen · 16/04/2012 16:22

Or

That (apparently) in Islam the word of a man is worth twice that of a woman. This tends to shock people in the UK who do not already know about it. They would probably be equally shocked that there is a seemingly similar idea in our own law. Thus it is out of step with how our society thinks our laws work and should be changed.

hathorinareddress69 · 16/04/2012 16:26

SQ - you have mail Grin

KRITIQ · 16/04/2012 16:30

The concept of "reasonableness" is surely subjective. What you might think to be a "reasonable" response from a person might be quite different to what I think is "reasonable." There needs to be very clear criteria to define what is meant by reasonableness.

If the law states "reasonable person" that would suggest that the criteria would be drawn from what a wide cross section of people would find to be reasonable.

If the law states "reasonable man," it suggests the criteria would only be drawn from what men believe to be reasonable.

Because men and women in general are socialised along gender lines in society, their concepts of "reasonableness" may differ.

And, unfortunately, there have been examples where the courts have used the definition of reasonableness as it applies to men, and not to people in general, when making decisions.

What springs to mind is the difference in murder and manslaughter. Men who have killed their partners have often been convicted by manslaughter because their counsel has successfully argued that they were provoked by something the woman did, they "just snapped" and killed them, so it wasn't premeditated.

However, until fairly recently, women who killed abusive partners after enduring often years of abuse were more often convicted of murder because it wasn't accepted that those years of abuse were sufficient enough for the "just snapped" defence to operate.

makemycounterargumentforme · 16/04/2012 16:33

Kristiq - that's exactly how I feel about it.

OP posts:
EldritchCleavage · 16/04/2012 16:37

It used to be a reasonable man test. Now it is a reasonable person test, only the wording hasn't changed (or at least, not in old statutes. New ones would probably say reasonable person).

hathorinareddress69 · 16/04/2012 16:40

Eldritch - you too have mail Grin

MightyNice · 17/04/2012 10:52

not just any reasonable man, but man on Clapham Omnibus I think

SweetTheSting · 17/04/2012 11:29

Contracts I see say, "[name of firm], acting reasonably, will..." or "[name of firm], not acting unreasonably, will..." No reference to persons, but that's contract law I guess rather than statutes (not a lawyer).

This feels like something that should be replaced automatically in all old statutes by 'reasonable person', but no doubt British law isn't that simple and each change probably needs to be scrutinised by Parliament or something.

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