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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NSPCC Sex Crime Survey

32 replies

limitedperiodonly · 04/04/2012 21:05

The news coverage majors on 'child abuse' which accounts for one third of offences.

We know that translates as 'little kids' = 'innocent victims'.

Two thirds of offences are recorded against people aged between 11-17.

I'm a journalist. I know news organisations will translate this as jailbait at best, manipulative scum at worst. Boys or girls.

That's why they don't want to touch it.

But I haven't seen anything on TV today from the NSPCC to try to say these are all vulnerable young people who are being fucked, trafficked and murdered.

I may be wrong and I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. Can anyone do that?

As it stands the NSPCC should be ashamed of itself to perpetuate the myth that there are worthy victims of 'child abuse' and the less-deserving others no matter how much money they hope to raise.

Otherwise they should save the money this survey cost and put it into playgroups.

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KRITIQ · 04/04/2012 21:21

Links please?

I've never got the impression that NSPCC perpetuate the myth that there are worthy and unworthy victims of child abuse.

For example, they've produced some pretty hard hitting research on abuse and control in teen relationships, which is very much about highlighting one increasing form of abuse against teenagers.

The fact that the media will translate any findings related to abuse of teens as "just jailbait" isn't the responsibility of the NSPCC or any of the other organisations involved in promoting child welfare, preventing abuse, supporting survivors, etc. If you are a journo yourself, then what are YOU doing about this slant on the issue?

KRITIQ · 04/04/2012 21:30

Seriously, just did an internet search and can't find any links to reports in the past couple years related to your op.

I did find this response from the NSPCC to a consultation on the wording of future British Crime Surveys, suggesting ways of enabling young participants to respond more accurately and urging them to reconsider the parameters of their survey on sexual violence to include incidents before the age of 16 (as they recognise that this is an increasing problem.)

That certainly doesn't support your claim that they are perpetuating the myth that abuse is only important if it happens to pre-teens.

CanCant · 04/04/2012 21:40

One third of what type of offences?
Sex offences? or offences against children?

Two thirds of which group of offences are recorded against 11-17yo?

Please be more clear in your description, and please provide a link to where NSPCC differentiate between "worthy and ...less-deserving" [sic] victims !

limitedperiodonly · 04/04/2012 22:23

I apologise for not putting up links. I assumed it would be easy to find because I saw it on TV today. Now I've had a search it's worse than I thought.

This important report stemming from a FOI request into sex crimefrom the NSPCC has had hardly any coverage and it looks like a blunder by the NSPCC itself.

Here's a link from Sky

from the Huntingdon Post

and from the NSPCC's Head of Strategy

The last one is my point, though I didn't realise it at the time, until you asked what I was talking about KRITIQ and CantCant.

That report from the Head of Strategy is woeful. Inpenetrable nonsense. Worse when you know that the media isn't very happy about reporting sex crimes against anything other than 'innocent' victims.

I am not surprised it didn't get better coverage. I'm actually quite ashamed that I slagged off news organisations for not making more of it.

The NSPCC should get a better head of press. Victims of sex crime deserve it.

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limitedperiodonly · 04/04/2012 22:53

KRITIQ I'm a journalist so know how news works but am not in a position to influence this issue.

However I care.

And anybody, particularly press officers from organisations as prestigious as the NSPCC should know it is their responsibility to spoon-feed journalists if they want to help their client groups.

Their failure offends me personally and professionally and should offend anyone else who cares about victims of sexual crimes.

I'm not asking for favours for myself. The favours should go to the people that organisations such as the NSPCC are supposed to help. Because if the NSPCC doesn't make it simple then newsrooms won't give a shit.

And then who do we help? A young person being sexually abused or someone drawing a good salary doing a poor job as a press officer at the NSPCC?

That link you posted was an utter turn-off. Maybe the NSPCC summarised it in an easily-digestible press release. I've just looked and I can't find it. Do you know where it is?

CantCant the two-thirds figure comes from Sky's report. Looking back, I don't think they did too badly.

'Worthy' and 'less deserving' is my interpretation of the way the news was reported. I don't think that's unreasonable given the way the NSPCC let this chance go.

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Nyac · 04/04/2012 23:05

Have you thought of volunteering for the NSPCC press office? That's a serious question, although you're right if they aren't putting this story out properly then it's very bad.

limitedperiodonly · 04/04/2012 23:17

I don't volunteer for work Nyac. Good work needs to be paid at the going rate and done by the right person. But I'm grateful for your point. Thanks.

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KRITIQ · 04/04/2012 23:19

Thanks for the links. Perhaps I'm missing something here.

The article in Huff Post Impact that you linked above was written by Jon Brown, Head of Strategy & Development for Sexual Abuse. I'm not that familiar with the NSPCC's internal structures, but it sounds like he's the manager of one strand of their work, not the over all Head of Strategy for the charity.

As a fairly big national charity, I would guess they do have a Press Officer who probably would have at least looked over the article and/or news release. Having said that, I've read some pretty appalling news releases issued by big statutory agencies and companies as well as charities. They can be turgid, full of "industry jargon," and really miss the target. The Huff Post article is a bit on the jargony side and all the numbers might befuddle the average reader, but I've seen far worse.

Anyhow, I've looked at the links, read through a couple of other articles on other media websites, but what I'm not getting what it is in this story that you are so unhappy about.

Is it the use of the word "children" rather than "children and young people?" (the former possibly implying it only refers to pre-teen age children, although some agencies do use "child" to refer to a person up to age 19, in my experience.)

Or, are you objecting to the sentence from Jon Brown, "A concentrated effort has to be made if we are to start reducing this distressing level of offences, many of which are committed on extremely young and helpless children," (which might suggest that sexual assaults on very young children are worse than those on older children?)

Nope, I'm still not getting it.

I linked to the full text of the study conducted by Bristol University and NSPCC. It's not actually intended to be a "turn-on," but evidence from their research. There is an executive summary on their website somewhere but it's late so if you're interested, have a rummage yourself.

If I could understand what it is that you are unhappy about, I might agree, or not. But frankly, I don't understand at all what you are saying. Sorry.

KRITIQ · 04/04/2012 23:20

You don't have to be a smart arse, btw. It's not making your point any clearer.

Nyac · 05/04/2012 00:18

I hope that didn't come across as undermining you.

It's just if you can see something sometimes you need to sort it out yourself, and if you're a journalist you have those skills. And charities do have volunteers even right up to their press office.

However you're right, it's the professionals in their office who should be doing this and if they aren't there's a big problem. The NSPCC is big enough to be able to pay for high calibre communications staff.

limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 00:24

KRITIQ I am going to try to be clear and I am certainly going to avoid personal insults. I would be grateful if you would return the favour.

Let's start all over again and see if we can find some common ground. I'm confident that we ought to be able to find some because we are adults and I guess neither of us like people hurting young people or their pain being misconstrued in the media.

My particular issue here is the handling of the NSPCC's report arising from their FOI request.

The way I took it from Sky's report is that a third of sexual offences are against young people up to 11years old. Two thirds are against people from 11-17. No timescale that I noticed. Those are approximate figures.

I was angry that Sky appeared to be focussing unduly on 'child abuse' as most people would understand it - eg against so-called 'innocent' victims, rather than concentrated on the more 'unpalatable' area of abuse against 11-17 year olds.

My quotation marks. Forgive me, but I know who Society finds the more sympathetic age group and I guess you do too. Or maybe not. I don't want to put words in your mouth so please say if you agree or not.

I first believed that it wasn't reported properly. That's my default mode, even as a journalist, because that's the way things are.

But thanks to you and CanCant I looked into it and realised that it was reported as best as could be expected and that the NSPCC had failed grievously in getting their message across.

It's not their message. That's the message of the human beings being hurt that the NSPCC is not only being paid to deliver, but has a moral reponsibility to convey.

I have no idea what the terms of that request were because Jon Brown, the NSPCC's Head of Strategy, does not specify them in his blog.

Neither did he do that when he was all over the TV today. Though possibly skilled at something, it wasn't at putting his point across in friendly interviews. That was another gross failure. If he couldn't do that then the NSPCC should have someone who could. If not, then what is their PR budget for?

You couldn't find the report into the FOI request when you Googled it, not because I failed to find the links for you but because it wasn't there.

You can't make head or tail of the links I did give you because the message isn't clear. Feel free to find clearer links.

Even if the press had the time and inclination, it is not their responsibility to do the NSPCC's work for them.

Any professional press office will produce clear press releases and provide good spokespeople to put over their views rather than hoping the press will 'rummage' around for the information.

I'm interested and gave up because there didn't appear to be a coherent point. Do you think anyone else would be interested in a rummage?

As said before, what do you think their PR budget is for and what you think the department should do?

How much was wasted on this so-called campaign and the continuing efforts of their press office and what do you think might be the outcome for abused young people if it was done properly?

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limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 00:25

No problem nyac Smile

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KRITIQ · 05/04/2012 02:28

My quip was in response to your retort to Nyac's suggestion that you volunteer for NSPCC. After saying in your previous post that you cared about the issue, you then said you only work for a good wage. But then there were your comments suggesting waste of money by NSPCC, coupled with complaints that their PR is rubbish. Anyhow, lets not get bogged down with that.

Once again, Jon Brown is not Head of Strategy for NSPCC, although that.s twice now you've stated that. If your beef is accuracy in the article, then it would help if you observed this, too.

The reports said data was for 2010 - 2011 and came from all 43 policy authorities in England and Wales. Did you miss that when you said you didn't 'notice any timescale' for the figures? Yes, the 2/3 is approximate, but actual figures supplied by the police were also cited.

I could find no use of the word 'innocent' by Jon Brown in his Huff Post piece to describe abused children, let alone to distinguish deserving from undeserving victims. I seriously don't understand where you are getting that from.

I agree that the general public may see the rape of a 5 year old as worse than the rape of a 15 year old. But, if NSPCC's view agreed with this, surely they would only publish data related to under 11s and ignore the rest. And why would the charity have bothered to propose changes to the British Crime Survey to capture sexual abuse data for younger teens if they didn't think abuse of teens to be serious?

I'm still not getting the reason you are so angry about this report. Would you be willing to answer some specific questions?

Is your problem with the figures cited? Do you dispute the accuracy of data given by the 43 police services? Do you think NSPCC have misrepresented the figures? Is the issue that you haven't found the FOI request on line and won't believe the figures without that?

The figures state that 6 times more girls were abused than boys. You haven't mentioned this. Is it just because you think all the figures are rubbish, or is there any other reason for not mentioning it?

Why did you choose to give this thread the title, 'NSPCC Sex Crimes Survey?' That isn't accurate. The figures weren't based on a survey. NSPCC didn't produce the figures. The police services did. The figures relate specifically to sexual abuse of under 18s, and weren't a subset of general sex crimes. I found your title odd, especially as you seem to be questioning the accuracy of information supplied by NSPCC.

Is your beef with NSPCC, with large charities, with children's charities generally? Is it because you think they shouldn't be investing in awareness-raising or trying to influence policy? Is it that you think they should only spend their money on direct services to help children who've been abused?

I also don't understand what you are asking in the last paragraph.

I can see that you are angry and think a great disservice has been done to abused children. It seems you don't like NSPCC. I'm still not getting the all important 'how and why' though.

KRITIQ · 05/04/2012 02:31

Sorry for typos. Insomniac on a phone. Paragraph 3 should read '43 police services,' not policy services.

limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 09:25

KRITIQ, yes, my beef is with the NSPCC. I don?t dislike the charity. In fact, I respect it. I think they are being done a disservice by their press office and therefore children are being done a disservice.

A great deal of information was gathered through this FOI request. I don't dispute its accuracy and I don't believe it has been misrepresented.

But I do not believe it has not been used effectively.

I do strongly believe the NSPCC should be, as you say, 'investing in awareness - raising or trying to influence policy'. They may have done that with professionals in the field of child abuse but they did not do that for the wider public.

That is their job.

The figures were not widely circulated and are contained in a research report which is not accessible to ordinary people - that includes journalists who do not have the time or inclination to rummage for information. No matter what you think of that, it's true.

I'm glad you think the Jon Brown's article is jargony and befuddling. That's not a particular failing of his. It is the job of a press officer to make his words accessible while maintaining accuracy.

Like you I've seen some awful press releases. That's not an excuse. This is an important job and it wasn't done.

They failed to persuade news organisations to pick up the story let alone report more widely on the issue of child sexual abuse than most people's definition of a child eg someone very young.

It is not the NSPCC who are 'perpetuating myths'. I apologise. Those were my words. But it is the job of the press office to dispel myths, or more properly, widely-held perceptions. They did not do this.

I accept they have little control over news reports but it is their job to try. On the evidence here I don't think they've tried. The NSPCC is a high-profile charity with respected views. I find it difficult to believe news organisations wouldn't be interested in their message if that message was conveyed properly.

I agree with you that a child is someone aged up to 19. Many people do not grasp that. It is the press office's job to help them to.

The fact that most journalists don't rummage is an advantage because you can lead them wherever you want as long as you back it up with evidence.

Evidence like two thirds of abuse happening to teenagers, most of whom are female, some of whom may not be garner much sympathy from the general public because of their personal circumstances.

It is the NSPCC's job to make people aware that abuse doesn't happen only to sympathetic victims - that's my word again - but I don't know how else to describe people many people might not have much love for but who they should care about.

The only national coverage I could see was Sky's cliched view of a playroom, and use of the figure of one-third which related to children under 11.

They did use someone who had been abused to her late teens but her story reinforced the view that sex abuse starts with a young victim and happens in a domestic setting.

I've heard her story before. I'm not belitting her experience or disputing her right to keep describing it, but it's the NSPCC's job to provide other voices and different experiences.

As I've said, they have no control over editorial decisions but they could try to influence them.

I do apologise for calling it a survey. It is accurate to use Jon Brown's descriptions which are investigations or a collation of figures.

Now it's my turn not to understand the point you're making

You say you think Jon Brown might not be overall head of strategy for the NSPCC. You might be right. But he is described as Head of Strategy and Development for Sexual Abuse and is the appropriate person to talk on this matter and was put up do it.

So what's your point? Do you think he wasn't the appropriate person? Do you think there was someone more appropriate? Surely, that's the decision of the NSPCC.

I do care about the issue. I work for a wage. My job is not in the field of child abuse but I do understand what's required from a press office.

NSPCC press officers are also being paid a wage. I don't know but imagine it's a pretty big department headed by a Director of Communications, his or her Deputy, a Communications Manager, possibly a deputy and some senior and junior press officers.

This costs a lot of money. Essentially, that's what I'm asking is my final paragraph - I don't think it's money well-spent.

Do you think these jobs should be done by volunteers or interested amateurs?

I don't. I believe they should be done by competent people on appropriate salaries for the sector. Undoubtedly they're being paid. But in this instance they are not competent.

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sunshineandbooks · 05/04/2012 13:22

Is the problem with this press release is that it implies (indirectly) that child abuse victims are under the age of 11 and so whitewashes older children out of the picture?

Is there a particular feminist angle on this? Kritiq is the 6x as many girls as boys figure you mentioned made up to illustrate a point or is it taken from the report?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get this straight in my head.

limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 16:08

Basically, yes.

Jon Brown's statement said the NSPCC needs more members of the public to be aware of abuse and how to prevent it. Yes, it does.

And yet the news coverage, such as it was, focussed on the abuse that many people are already aware of through past campaigns by the NSPCC and others - abuse of younger children usually in domestic situations. The greater level of abuse against older children, overwhelmingly girls, wasn't touched.

I know no organisation can dictate editorial lines and I understand, not least through stories I've covered, that the public and media are generally unsympathetic to stories of abused teenage girls.

That doesn't mean you don't try. You call on friendly press contacts, you set up moving case histories with girls and parents, you explain the kind of abusive situations they face and you put forward engaging people such as youth workers, police and prosecutors who are working to change their lives who will fight their corner in the press and on TV in plain language.

To me the lack of sympathy to older girls suffering abuse is a feminist issue. Many people blame teenage girls for the situations they find themselves in when they should be blaming the abusers and the society that makes them vulnerable.

Yes, keep telling us about little children. But don't ignore them once they turn 11 and have complicated lives and personalities that some people find difficult to sympathise with.

As a journalist I've worked with very good press officers from many organisations who think about what they're doing and how to show the work of their organisation and its clients. I didn't recognise anything of the kind here.

That's all

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sunshineandbooks · 05/04/2012 16:29

Ok. I'm not sure the fault lies with a single individual at the NSPCC, but yes, your're right. It's very sad how the abuse of teenage girls is basically considered not newsworthy enough in comparison to younger children who always evoke so much more sympathy. That definitely is a feminist issue. Sad

limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 17:25

If I gave the impression I blamed Jon Brown that was unfair of me.

He has a job to do and I've no reason to believe he doesn't do it well. He didn't perform very well on TV and the report/press release he wrote was dull but that's not his job. For all I know he communicates very well with his peers. Communicating with the press is easy when someone teaches you how.

If he's not comfortable being interviewed, and not everyone is, the press office should find someone who is and collaborate on the reports he wants to release so everyone gets his message.

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jifnotcif · 05/04/2012 17:40

I don't believe you are a journalist at all.

No journalist would write with such short paragraphs.

Give the NSPCC support, don't undermine them.

Mrsrobertduvall · 05/04/2012 17:53

Have you just been made redundant from the NSPCC press office?
You do seem to have an axe to grind.

limitedperiodonly · 05/04/2012 19:46

jifnotcif I am a journalist. You can search if you want to.

When I started training in 1983, I was taught to write in sentences of 30 words or fewer, so that most people could understand them.

It was drummed into me that just because I had a high standard of education and comprehension, not everyone else did. I might find myself writing for people who left school at 12-14 - because in case you don't know, that's what used to happen, indeed it happened to my parents - and who were as entitled to be informed as the most erudite person.

There was another, more practical, reason. I worked on typewriters on A5 paper. If you wrote in pars of one sentence you could swap them about, just renumbering the pages, if you needed to move information up and down the story without rewriting the whole thing.

Need any more proof that I've done this thing for a living for quite a long time? That's a rhetorical question.

Anyway, easy comprehension for all was the most abiding lesson of my training and informs my attitude to the dissemination of, and access to, news.

BTW I was forbidden to use split sentences, dashes and words such as 'erudite' for the same reason. But I'm going to take the chance that you can handle them.

Much later, when I began writing for websites, I was reminded to write single sentence pars because the human brain finds it difficult to process crowded information on screen.

You must have noticed this from some posts on Mumsnet and other sites. There's an awful lot more that human brains find hard to process, don't you agree?

Writing for tabloids is more difficult than writing for broadsheet readers who know quite long words. That's a fact; though I write for both. You may look it up, along with other aids to comprehension that I learned, such as the Fog Index. I don't know whether you know that and frankly, I don't care.

So, IM really-very-informed O the NSPCC press office has failed for the reasons I outlined in previous posts and now in this one.

BTW you would have been better to use a semi-colon instead of a comma between 'support' and 'don't' in your last sentence. HTH

Mrsrobertduvall

  1. No;
  1. Yes, I do, against people who aren't doing their jobs properly and failing vulnerable people. Do you want to give reasons to defend people who draw salaries for holding down such important jobs and yet appear to fail at them?

You two have been rude in a way that the other people who responded to my posts have not.

If those people want to come back and say I've got it wrong and they intended to be rude to me all along, that's okay. If anyone else wants to be rude I can take it.

But I'd much rather that people asked me to explain my POV, even criticised it in the coherent manner of the previous posters and debated what I think is the very important subject of what I see as the disservice done to teenage girls by one of Britain's premier child care organisations.

I'm an expert in what I do but I'm not a know-it-all. I accept that, that my first post was more heat than light and that my argument has been tempered by some careful questioning.

I want to listen to people who have reasonable arguments, whether they agree with me or not. Does anyone else want to do that?

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jifnotcif · 06/04/2012 09:00

Ok. Whatever you say.

Nyac · 06/04/2012 09:32

"The greater level of abuse against older children, overwhelmingly girls, wasn't touched."

Thank you for posting this in the feminist section, this is an important issue. We have had threads on Mumsnet where girls of 10 and 12 who were raped have been accused of being to blame for what happened to them. Or fifteen year old girls who describe what sounds like a rape have been accused of being liars. It's very disturbing and it comes from a public attitude which views girls of this age as not deserving of protection.

FWIW, I believe you're a journalist.

victorialucas · 06/04/2012 09:36

Limited- you are obviously annoyed at the spin that has been put on this story. I've read/watched the links and I don't read the implied 'emphasis on vv young victims' comes from the NSPCC itself.

It doesn't surprise me at all for Sky et al to label abuse of pre pubescent children as worse than abuse against teenagers because that is the standard line in our media, sad as that is.

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