Male obstetricians & gynaes

[RevoltingPeasant]

This is just a musing, really.

What do you think about men who work in obstetrics & gynaecology? In my undergraduate women's studies days, I would've bristled and said, 'What? Why does it matter whether the dr is a man?'

But since joining MN I have read so much about assault during childbirth, rude and dismissive HCPs, and it does seem that most of these comments are about male doctors. Recently I have started to wonder if bad treatment of maternity patients is related to the still-preponderance of male HCPs.

Would we be better off with mostly female consultants in this area? Would you go to a hospital/ clinic entirely staffed by women? Do you think women drs listen to women more?

Or is this a non-issue?

I have my own gripes about maternity services but non are related to the sex of HCPs. We're driven through the system like sheep through a sodding dip. Have this test, take some blood, here's a tiny little tube - pee in it, here is your scan appointment. Rince and repeat.

I think it a non issue. It works both ways, if all jobs are open to women they should be open to men too.
The best gynaecologist I have ever seen was a man-he had a superb bedside manner. I have also seen a dreadful male one. The same goes for women. You get the whole range in both sexes.

As the mother of DSs I would be very annoyed if they were banned from some jobs.

I work in obs and gynae.. three female cons and two male. I would only trust 1 of the female consultants and only one of the male consultants. the other male cons is near retirement and not with all the new changes and proposals. the other two women cons have no empathy and are very harsh and abrupt. never heat a good word about them..

Empathy and a good bedside manner have nothing whatever to do with the sex of the person.

*hear.

obs and gynae is one of the worst areas for drs to work in.. in a medic legal sense. the highest amount of patients suing trusts... I've been told... Is in obstetrics..

no... but you expect a female dr to be more sympathetic to period or childbirth problems.. but their not. how a male dr can empathise with heavy painful periods I don't know.. same as we can't empathise with prostate or impotence issues for example..

You might expect it but you don't always get it!

The sex of the doctor is irrelevant. I have known good and bad Obstetricians/Gynaecologists of both sexes. The toughest, most abrupt one of all was a woman (quite often praised on MN as it happens, but then I knew her as a junior dr), as was the one who actually made me almost pass out in pain through her roughness.

The loveliest and most gentle was a man. Its to do with their personalities and capabilities, not their gender.

6k per year in insurance fees for O+G consultants AFAIK.

I dont think that gender is relevent in terms of determining if someone will be a good O+G doctor, though the shift patterns aren't especially family friendly.

I wouldnt expect a female Dr to be more sympathetic to period or childbirth problems. Actually I think thats a really sexist thing to say. What if they have never had children, or had really easy births? Its completely irrelevant.

Is the only good orthopaedic surgeon one who has at some point broken his leg? Of course not. Or the only good geriatrician someone who is themself very elderly?

Tolly I don't know but my gut instinct is a male obs and gynae might be more sympathetic because they have not and cannot experience periods, childbirth etc... Whereas a female obs and gynae might be a bit more 'big deal, we all get period pains' 'I never had an epidural' etc...

I have no preference regarding the gender of the obs and gynae. I'd just want a good one who had all the necessary qualifications and experience.

Not all female obstetricians/gynaecologists have had heavy/painful periods or have had children so isn't that a bit of a non-argument? We can't have a whole profession who have had heavy periods and exclude those who haven't.

Doctors specialising in medicine for the elderly haven't been retired!

Oh, bit of cross posting there!

There was a brilliant male midwife on the last series of OBEM- I think he actually posted on mumsnet afterwards.

It's more about the medical staff being GOOD and sensitive to the women they are working with than their gender, I think.

The empathy thing can sometimes be worse with female doctors as they often have a 'I was fine so why are you making a fuss?' kind of attitude whereas a good male ob/gyn tends not to make that judgment. Worst experience i had was going to see my GP after an MMC at 12 weeks. She wasn't particularly sympathetic at the time. That surprised me even more when I went back to see her a few months later and noticed her bump so she had clearly been pregnant around the same stage that I had been. I'd have expected more empathy but some people, amazingly often doctors, are not very empathic.

The male ob/gyn phenomenon used to bother me when I was young but having my DS helped me get over that. You realize it's no big deal. I still choose to see a female ob/gyn when I have the choice but don't have hang-ups about it anymore. As long as you're getting helped it doesn't matter who it is!

This is interesting - thanks.

I think I was thinking less of 'tea and sympathy' - though that too! - and more about general respect. Totally unreliable statistical sample, but I have been in hospital recently and seen 2 x male consultants and 1 x female, and the woman was the only one who spoke to me as if I actually had a brain!

Obviously anecodates do not equal data etc.

exotic here's a genuine Q - if - and I mean IF - there were reliable stats to show that women had much better outcomes under female care (like, fewer interventions due to having their wishes taken into account, fewer instances of 'rough' care) then would you still think your DSs potential desire to become ob/gyns should outweigh the comfort of female patients? Not trying to be offensive, just wondering!

*anecdotes, gah.

i've got an interesting anecdote for you....

i have three children, born in three different countries. two male obstetricians (one performed elcs, one vbac1) and one female mw (vbac2).

i have only two children that weren't brain damaged due to negligence.

i would be off my head if i suggested that female hcps were in some way preferable.

equally i would be off my head if i suggested that male hcp's were. but you can see how i might have been influenced.

the female midwife was lovely though. i'm just not sure that it counted for much, in the longer term.

honeslty? it doesn't make any difference to me personally, but i believe there should be all-female teams available in certain circs. i wouldn't ask for them, but nor would i have a problem being allocated them in the luck of the draw.

How could there ever be such a statistic? Surely outcomes would be down to the care received, and how would you ever be confident that better outcomes were due to the gender of the person rather that person just being a better communicator/practitioner?

This all seems a non-argument to me, sorry.

I live in a country where most expats have an Obs led delivery (private system) and you can choose your Obs- there are approx 7 who are the popular/well known ones- 3 are women, 4 are men. Mine is a woman but I'd be happy with any of 5 out of the 7.

Based on comments made by other expats, arguably the most empathetic and openly caring Obs is a man. The most experienced, technically competent Obs who gets the complicated ones is a woman. Two of the 3 female Obs dont have any biological children. What's more, personal opinions on each of these Obs varies massively, so it seems that patient personality/circumstance is as much of a facotr as Obs personality/manner.

I dont think it's helpful to generalise.

Three people stand out as ignoring my wishes / not respecting me while I was in hospital having dd1 and dd2, all female (one obs, one midwife and one other hcp, not sure what she was).

The only man I encountered was the obs who dealt with my case when I was admitted with a heavy bleed at 20 weeks. He was kind, respectful and professional and spoke to me as an equal and the fact he was a man made no odds to me whatsoever.

I also know someone who had a male midwife for her first labour and said he was great.

Totally unscientific sample of course and just my experience. Most of the staff I encountered were female and were great.

The most respectful and empathetic HCPs I had when having children were all men. They were very good at seeming to protect my dignity and talking to me as an intelligent person. The only issues I had were with women who were occasionally blunt, wouldn't listen and could be quite rough with their handling. Of course that's entirely anecdotal so means nothing but I don't think the gender has a huge impact although I do wonder if maternity care would be considered more important if men gave birth but that's another thread.

I must say though that the majority of HCPs I encountered were great, it was just the very odd one that was a problem (and I met a lot!)

I don't think there is much of a difference between male and female doctors on this, but I don't think that is very surprising as both are trained within the same system, which I think is generally quite dismissive of "women's problems".

I've always had problems with painful periods and found that my GPs have always been of "live with it" mentality, all have been men. My worst experience was with a male paramedic that was called when I fainted due to a bad period on the tube. He refused to believe that the pain was real and I wasn't really in a position to argue as I was drifting in and out of conciousness, so felt real to me. He made it clear that if there really was a problem, he thought I should have tried much harder to get it investigated, so had clearly never been to a GP complaining about period pain (I had been to several). He also refused to give me any pain relief and claimed that they had nothing suitable available. His colleague (also male but much more sympathetic), gave me something when he had gone, so clearly a slight untruth there.

The "women's thing" I've had is fainting, which again I've repeatedly been told just happens to young women and I'd just have to put up with it. I did eventually manage to get a referral for this (from a woman after several men had dismissed me) and surprise, surprise, there was something that could be done so I had basically been living with a treatable problem for 10 years because it was a "women's thing".

Tolly I am interested as to why so being sued is such a greater risk for ob/ gyns. Do you think it's because it's an emotive area of medicine or because care genuinely is not so good?

Holly it isn't an argument! That's why it's not in AIBU. Just a musing, like I said.

I was fantasizing recently about what the ideal maternity ward would look like and wondering if an all-female space would be nicer to give birth in. That was all! Interesting to see that many feel not.

exotic here's a genuine Q - if - and I mean IF - there were reliable stats to show that women had much better outcomes under female care (like, fewer interventions due to having their wishes taken into account, fewer instances of 'rough' care) then would you still think your DSs potential desire to become ob/gyns should outweigh the comfort of female patients? Not trying to be offensive, just wondering!

They have had no desire to do anything remotely medical so it hasn't cropped up. However I don't believe for one minute that anyone would get the statistics to prove it and based on my personal experience that the best doctor I have ever come across was a male gynaecologist I would say 'go for it and prove them wrong'!