Does reading about male abuse affect how you see men?

[miloben]

Hi everyone. I've been reading through almost all the topics over a number of nights and I have learned an awful lot about women's fight against abuse and disadvantage, as well as male privilege. Though I have been a feminist for several years, ever since I worked in SE Asia and saw how much work women did compared to the men, I kinda had it on the back burner, and was a half hearted feminist - one in name only if that makes sense. Then I had a baby girl, and because of my daughter really, I have become interested in the kind of lives women have and can expect to have.

I very much love learning about feminism and feel strongly about teaching my daughter (and new born son) about the world we live in and the struggles women face. However, I think I am becoming a bit resentful towards men. I HATE how hardly any of them speak out about it...I even found myself saying to my friend how great David Schwimmer was when I heard he spoke out against rape...until I thought to myself that is what ALL men should be doing, but don't, and he isn't so great.

I have a wonderful father, husband, brother...all the men in my life in fact are pretty terrific, yet because of so many other men's abuse of women and their disinterest in stopping it, I think I am starting to harbour a resentment towards men as a collective group. Hell, if I'm honest, I would say I don't like men very much right now. And as I have a little son, I know this is wrong. My husband, despite being a feminist, has just voiced his concern that I am beginning to be very critical of men in general and derogatory. He is right about that. I just feel so ANGRY!!!

I am just wondering if any of you have gone through this and what you did to change how you viewed men. The last thing I want is to be consumed by hatred like the misogynists I deplore. Thank you very much, and I hope I haven't waffled on too much!!

[Sanjeev]

Beachcomber, I have just found that function. Do you mean the poster asking for education on feminism? I asked about the timeline/approach for rad fem implementing its aims in theocracies? You said you knew it wasn't possible.

If this is the one (you are a bit cryptic about this, so I am guessing), I didn't see where a response was required. You didn't ask me anything. You ended by saying that there was no way to answer my questions in a relatively short space, so I didn't pursue it any further. What am I not understanding? Any addition by me would not have added anything. If I am supposed to thank you, then thank you, but on other forums I frequent that might be considered 'clutter'. I am pretty new here. You may do things differently.

[Beachcomber]

When you fire off questions at another poster on MN, and that poster takes the time to answer your questions in a polite way, it is generally considered good manners to acknowledge that someone has taken the time to respond to you. You don't have to thank the poster if you do not wish to, an acknowledgement suffices.

Otherwise it looks like you don't have any interest in the answer, in which case why waste the poster's time by asking them direct questions in the first place?

[Sanjeev]

Okay, understood. You also posted after me on another thread,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1191466-Because-weve-been-talking-a-lot-about-porn?pg=6

and because you didn't specify, I was confused. Victor hasn't responded to me on there. Should I point it out to him/her? Is it bad etiquette on MN?

[Sanjeev]

Actually, a few people on this thread haven't responded to me either. I am feeling slighted now.

[BasilFoulTea]

Sanjeev we get a lot of trolls and derailers on here so that's probably why you sometimes get a sceptical response.

If you're genuinely interested in pursuing any aspect of feminism, that doesn't obviously connect with the thread you happen to be on at the moment, the best thing to do is to start a new separate thread on it so that it can be discussed in its own right without derailing the original thread.

Viz the meeting men as a group/ individuals thing. Yep I withhold judgement unless I hear a man say something one way or the other. Pretty much as I do with women really. I bear in mind that he may be an arse or a closet feminist. Pretty much as I do with women.... Sorry there seems to be a bit of an echo...

[Beachcomber]

I think you misunderstand me.

Nobody has a 'right' to be responded to on MN. Sometimes people do not wish to answer questions or respond, and that is their right.

You asked me some direct questions on a thread - you mentioned me by name in your posts and quoted something I said. I thought quite carefully about how to respond to you - and I was surprised that you didn't acknowledge my direct answers to your direct questions. I do not have the right to be responded to by you in this situation, but I'm just pointing out that it would be good manners to do so. As I said, it looked, to me, like you weren't actually interested in the answers to questions you directly asked me and that I took the time to post.

I do not wish this thread to be taken off topic by this issue so I probably won't comment on it again here.

[blackcurrants]

Sanjeev I am treating your posts as I would treat anyone else's posts, if they posted like you. I am exasperated, I admit, but your masculine-attributed moniker isn't exasperating me, your behaviour is.

I'm getting a bit exasperated by your repeated attempts to divert conversations away from the point being discussed and towards areas YOU want to discuss, it's selfish and bad forum etiquette, especially when it is very very easy to start your own thread in this section. I am also exasperated by your tangents, your repeated asking of 'introduction to feminism' style questions in "advanced feminism'' style threads, and your complete lack of any acknowledgement that people have spent a lot of time writing considered responses to your questions.
Oh, and the way you sometimes tell posters that 'this is not a feminist concern' gets on my wick a bit.

These behaviours are exasperating in a section designated for discussing feminism because they reek of male privilege. I have no idea if you are male and frankly, I'm not that fussed. I do think you are behaving badly, and I have gone from thinking "This person wants to know more" to "This person wants to disrupt conversations about feminism."
I would love to be wrong about you. It's hard to judge people's sincerity online, you have only their words and their manners.Your response to this post will speak volumes to me. Will you consider ways in which your posting behaviour might be offending people here, or will you fly off on one, outraged that someone might criticize you? The suspense!

[BasilFoulTea]

Sanjeev, we often get men on here who fire questions at us, taking up our time and energy (something men do to women often, because they've been socialised to think they are entitled to), in this case merely in order to silence us and stop us discussing what we want to.

So it makes us a bit testy sometimes, if we see posts which look like they may be veering into that sort of territory.

[Sanjeev]

Will you consider ways in which your posting behaviour might be offending people here, or will you fly off on one, outraged that someone might criticize you?

I have had 4 or 5 people either mention me in passing, or ask me stuff directly on the last page. I don't know how to respond to each person without risking taking it away from the OP. Do you see? What would you do - respond, or ignore and be thought rude/offensive?

Done it again, haven't I?

[Beachcomber]

Blackcurrants when men tell me what is or is not a feminist issue, it gets right on my wick too.

Can you imagine the reception a white person would get, telling a group of people of colour, that what they are discussing is not a race issue!?

[Beachcomber]

Sigh.

I would say 'I am taking on board everyone's comments, even if I don't respond to you all individually'.

Or something extremely obvious like that.

[Sanjeev]

'Oh, and the way you sometimes tell posters that 'this is not a feminist concern' gets on my wick a bit. '

Where have I said that?

[Sanjeev]

Right, forget that last question. I will only be accused of sidetracking again. Whatever I did, sorry. Let's get back to the OP please.

[Sanjeev]

miloben, have you seen this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/971753-The-quot-so-what-can-we-actually-do-quot-thread?pg=22

It's 22 pages, but full of ideas about participation. Perhaps being active on one of those campaigns could allay your anger, and give a sense of some achievement, rather than frustration.

[Nyac]

Spamtastic

[SweetTheSting]

Sanjeev, how exactly do you "precis" (for those "hard of reading" -nice aside, by the way): "I am starting to harbour a resentment towards men as a collective group. Hell, if I'm honest, I would say I don't like men very much right now."

as "'The men in my life are wonderful. The others are fuckers.' And by fuckers, we mean abusers, rapists, misogynists...all the awful things that male abusers do"

That's not a precis. That's a flight of imagination.

miloben, great thread, I see where you are coming from and I'm finding the replies really useful.

Off out now so unable to answer/comment further but will read with interest later.

[Beachcomber]

Yes, Nyac - Sanjeev didn't acknowledge my answers to his direct questions, on another thread, as he doesn't wish to 'clutter' threads, but he seems quite happy to clutter this one up with multiple posts asking inane hypothetical questions, twisting what the OP is saying, and claiming that MNers hate the OP's male relatives .

I'm starting to feel quite angry. Which is sort of ironic considering the subject of the thread.

[miloben]

Hi Sanjeev yip I read through that thread the other night, and there are some brilliant ideas. My husband actually offered to set me up with an online blog (he works in IT) or to help me contribute to one on feminism and particularly my own thoughts since working overseas...I feel nowhere near ready for this though, as I am still at the stage where I don't KNOW enough yet feel angry enough to want to keep learning and hopefully affect some change, however tiny. I love the idea of joining a feminist group and meeting women who are out there doing things and have discovered one in my town (just need to pluck up the courage as I always feel quite nervous joining established groups ).

STS - thank you very much!!! :) I'm finding the replies really helpful too - I am especially encouraged that my feelings of resentment and even rage when I hear about a particularly upsetting incident are normal and will probably change into something else while losing none of their power.

I will say that despite all the pain it can bring, learning about women's lives and their (our) struggles/injustice has been life changing and I am so glad I came here to this board and listened.

[PosiePumblechook]

One thing that completely encourages me is that some law courts have the decency to keep violent men away from their children, although this is only a rumour. Most of my friends who have been victims of serious domestic violence still can't get their exes away from the children.

Organisations still support men seeing their children that they can't be arsed to pay for or show up on time.

As for male violence, I have had it in my life but still do not think of all men as violent. Certainly not strangers.

[hurricanewyn]

Just a quick one - this thread is being discussed on the F4J facebook page here as evidence of the over-riding "gender hatred" of this site.

A lot of remarks are being taken out of context and twisted around

[Beachcomber]

Jolly good! Nice to hear that feminist discussions are reaching people.

Feminists are used to having their words taken out of context and twisted - luckily we don't actually care about Angry Men huffing and puffing because they would like us to STFU on the subject of violence against women.

We never have, we never will

[miloben]

I feel a bit icky after going on that site. Their irrationality and hatred is disturbing, to say the least. Bitter, bitter people.

No surprises there, then.