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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Abortion due to the sex of fetus

99 replies

fatagainkathsigh · 23/02/2012 16:53

I'm a lurker in the feminist section and rarely post at all on mumsnet, though I lurk every day!
I just wondered what the feminist stance on this story is:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17136213

Surely a woman's right to choose, no one's business why a woman should terminate a pregnancy.

If for example a woman had three boys and was desperate for a girl, wouldn't it be okay to terminate if the fetus was male? Surely it's part of a woman's body and is just a bundle of cells until 24 weeks????? Why the outrage?????

Would love to hear all of your views, from a feminist perspective.

OP posts:

JerichoStarQuilt · 23/02/2012 18:07

Well said SQ.

lollygag · 23/02/2012 18:07

SQ:Thanks will check it out.

SardineQueen · 23/02/2012 18:08

No you can't.

You can only abort in the UK if 2 doctors agree that there is a risk to your health (including mental health).
Except on the grounds of disability where it is legal until term.
Except in NI where it is illegal unless you are going to die.

Original poster

fatagainkathsigh · 23/02/2012 18:08

Ahhh Sardine I AM NOT TRYING TO CATCH PEOPLE OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus!!!

OP posts:

SardineQueen · 23/02/2012 18:11

But abortion on demand is not available in the UK.

In theory it is as illegal to have an abortion because you can't afford a baby, as it is to abort because it is the wrong sex.

SardineQueen · 23/02/2012 18:15

OK then fata

Maybe am being touchy today.

It just read that way to me.
This stuff is tricky and I know what I think logically but emotionally I disagree with myself.
On the sex selection thing, given the situation around the world I think it needs to be illegal.

Chocladoodle · 23/02/2012 18:15

Exactly SQ - I think the difference the OP is trying to get across that the gender making a difference is just one more of 'those' reasons (ie not medically related).

However sexing of the feutus would only be possible at the much later stage in pregnancy ie 20 weeks plus and therefore more difficult to persuade doctors to sign off on it.

Original poster

fatagainkathsigh · 23/02/2012 18:19

Yes, in theory Sardine but not in reality.

Seriously I am pro choice. If my posts were worded clumsily I"m sorry. I thought I was being logical.

Really off to bath kids now and not press refresh!

( Promises never to post in feminist section again an hides thread)

OP posts:

Beachcomber · 23/02/2012 18:21

I read a thing the other day about how females used to represent 51% of the population (perhaps because women tend to live longer). We now represent 50% due to the millions of missing females having been aborted or killed as infants.

Dworkin · 23/02/2012 18:21

When I was expecting my second daughter in 1995, I wasn't allowed to know the gender of the baby. The hospital, a London one, said that this was their new policy. I wonder if they still have that in place. When I had my last child, not in London, I was told it was a boy upon my request.

I think the sex of the baby should only be given to the parents if there is a genetic disorder in the family. Then it becomes their choice.

I like Sardine's excellent posts and really wanted to reiterate that in the UK, there is no abortion on demand at any point of the pregnancy.

I think there should be AOD up to a certain point, i.e. 10 weeks. And after that it should revert to the system in place now.

GrimmaTheNome · 23/02/2012 18:24

I'm not sure what the 'feminist' stance is, but to my mind, aborting on grounds of gender (except in the allowed cases of high probability of sex-linked disease) is exactly as ethical as aborting on the grounds of skin colour. i.e not ethical at all.

iloveberries · 23/02/2012 18:24

if you want to talk about women's rights.... what about the right of the 24 year old baby girl to be born?? (sorry i don't buy the bundle of cells thing.)

i'm with sardine on this.... gender is a disgraceful reason to abort. If you're that bothered about not getting the gender you want then go for some counselling but FFS don't abort the baby. it's not a mail order catalogue.

Chocladoodle · 23/02/2012 18:29

Dworkin - where I live, they have a policy NOT to say the sex of the baby. The reason being that in the past mistakes were made and couples ended up sueing the hospital because they had prepared for the wrong gender ie they went and spent a fortune on pink stuff only then to go on and deliver a boy!

SardineQueen · 23/02/2012 18:32

Whoops

Sorry OP

Beachcomber · 23/02/2012 18:33

I don't think the OP understands current abortion law. Or she is up to mischief.

You don't have the right to abort because you don't fancy a baby. You have the right to abort because it would be detrimental to your health to continue with the pregnancy and go to term. Mental health counts - if a woman is very distressed at the idea of becoming a mother an abortion will be allowed.

A woman cannot however claim that she is distressed at the idea, not of having a baby but of having a baby of a certain sex. It is illegal to abort on those grounds. Just as it would be illegal to abort because the father had red hair and you are the sort of knob who discriminates against people with red hair.

Note the use of the word discrimination. That is the problem - and so it should be. Gender selection is illegal because it is open to abuse and discrimination (and is abhorrent, unethical, etc).

We live in a patriarchy, but at least in the UK, gender selection is illegal. And as we can see from the links posted above, in societies where it is tolerated it is overwhelmingly female children who don't get to be born. No shit.

CatitaInaHatita · 23/02/2012 18:33

What Sardine said.

The whole "sex selected" abortion debate is a big fat red herring. Abortions for reasons of biological sex merely replace older practises in which female babies have been murdered, abandoned or starved (and still are in some places). The source of outrage should be why females are considered less worthy than males, not the fact that abortions happen.

Moreover, the issue invariable comes up in any discussion on abortion and is made, without fail, by the antichoice people. The aim is to divert the discussion and force the prochoice people to agree that Abortion is Wrong. I am unsurprised therefore to see that this story originates in the Torygraph and in the context of the renewed attacks on abortion rights in the UK.

The next step in any abortion debate would usually be outrage over the number of fetuses aborted for reasons of cleft palette and the like. This is the same red herring dressed up in a different disguise. Again, the problem is not the abortion but the prejudices of society against people who are not physically "normal."

End prejudices of this kind the number of abortions due to them will fall without it being necessary to circumscribe and limit a women's right to choose.

CatitaInaHatita · 23/02/2012 18:44

Hmm. Apologises for my error on "cleft palate".

And OP, I hope that didn't read as me getting at you. Not the case at all. I am getting at the spin on this story.

CatitaInaHatita · 23/02/2012 18:56

"End prejudices of this kind AND the number of abortions due to them will fall without it being necessary to circumscribe and limit a women's right to choose."

Sorry again.

CatitaInaHatita · 23/02/2012 18:57

"End prejudices of this kind AND the number of abortions due to them will fall without it being necessary to circumscribe and limit a women's right to choose."

Sorry again.

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/02/2012 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReclaimingMyFuckingLife · 23/02/2012 19:07

I don't think it's any of my business why a woman has an abortion, she should have a right to it regardless. However I think the limit should be brought down to 20 weeks because currently a foetus born at 20 weeks is extremely unlikely to survive. At 24 weeks, there is some chance of survival and to me that is too late for an abortion.

CatitaInaHatita · 23/02/2012 19:20

Forgot to add: the subtext in these arguments about abortion -as in most antichoice discourse- is the idea that women are not capable of, or can't be trusted to make their own decisions about their fertility. They are flighty and abort for reasons of convenience, cosmestic details etc. They need independent counselling and to been given ultrasounds to "educate" them about what abortion entails. They need to have two doctors certify that they need an abortion. These types of red herring are then pointed to triumphantly as conclusive proof of the fact that women shouldn't be allowed to decide for themselves about a pregnancy.

LiamsMummyJaz · 23/02/2012 19:25

Aborting a BABY after its heart has started to beat is wrong in my book... Except for extreme circumstances. aborting a BABY because of what gender it is is sick and wrong and tbh you don't deserve any kids at all!!

SardineQueen · 23/02/2012 19:27

Good post cat very true.

NormanTebbit · 23/02/2012 19:45

If this practice is restricted to one clinic then why is it that our healthcare trust refuses to tell you the sex of the foetus? There are notices up telling you not to ask when you go for a scan.

I don't understand why some feminists shouldn't even be discussed because it's an argument made by pro lifers. Surely this is a feminist issue.

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