Use of the term "hamburger" by sonographers to describe baby girl "bits"

[ahhhhhpushit]

I've heard this term reported by mothers so many terms that it must by the term sonographers aee taught at sonographer school.

Anybody else feel uncomfortable by it?

Imagine it being said about a baby's bits once she'd been born!

Is it just me?

before you all go, do let on if Dworkin is a satirical construct or a person, will you?

Dworkin, I'm not too incensed about this one because, like I said, I think it is utterly unintentional.

I think it is crass and unfortunate and I would probably say so if I were to have a scan and that terminology was used.

I don't think it is that big a deal. I think it is a much bigger deal that the meat/women association came about in the first place. If that association didn't exist and lowlifes like Larry Flint hadn't made money out of it, the term hamburger would be innocuous.

The problem is the people who are the origin and the perpetrators of the woman = piece of meat misogyny. Not sonographers who are being a bit crass.

This is my opinion - I respect your right to hold a different one. I do think you should be careful with saying stuff like others should be offended - that may be what you think but it will only get people's backs up. I missed that when I commented earlier saying no-one is telling anyone to be offended.

I don't think it is a biggie and I'm an anti porn radical feminist.

I'm an anti porn radical feminist and I think it is a biggie. Really a biggie. It's a screen and it's a gender thing and it's described as a hamburger. Vulva anyone?

FFS Aitch. I'm a person. I type. I'm not risen from the dead but I choose the word Dworkin in honour of a woman who wrote fantastic books. Have you read any?

Do you see what I mean about the problem being the porn hounds and the originators of the meat association?

no, i have a personal rule not to read books by people with shit hair.

Yes I do. Good point. It invades us utterly. I despair. Luckily I have you to keep me straight. :)

as an aside, do either you or linerunner have any evidence to back up your assertion that the fact that it is described as 'that bit that looks like a hamburger' has anything to do with porn? what about the joint injury? is that a porn reference too?

I think it it is a big issue to a minority, surely it is worth worrying about?

Most medics I know would be very upset to learn they had used a term that could upset people - even if it were unintentional. There is no need to try to establish how often sonographers intend to make that association - I'm sure they almost never mean anything by it. There is no need to try to establish how often sonographers intend to make that association - I'm sure they almost never mean anything by it.

We all know - I think - that women are brutalized in pornography. That is where the concern about this term comes from. No-one thinks there is a natural link between that context and little babies. But, in the same way that a misogynistic culture of rape makes many women struggle to relate to their own bodies, so too a misogynistic culture makes some women react against terminology that reminds us of the misogynistic equation of women to meat.

so the joint injury?

What about the joint injury?

It it relevant?

lol. it's relevant, yes. 'the hamburger sign' is used to spot not only female genitalia but a particular joint injury. so, how does it come from porn in that case?

I don't think sonographers have got the idea from porn anymore than the joint injury comes from porn. But there are well known metaphors for describing women sexually as pieces of meat. As such, it is likely to be upsetting to some people to describe female genitalia as something connected to meat, even when the original reason for using the description has nothing to do with pornography.

The origin doesn't really matter. It is what the connection is in people's mind, and for some people it is a negative connection. It is rather like bulldozer having an origin in slavery but people generally don't know that so it is fine to use the term bulldozer. Nittygritty on the other hand doesn't have an origin in slavery, but many people think it does have a distressing slavery connection, and find it upsetting. It doesn't really matter where words come from it is how people view them now.

Oh ... I thought the point was that 'hamburger' (which refers to a meat patty to most of us, and is a nasty term for women's genitals to some of us) was being used as a gendered term.

If you're trying to suggest that only women got joint injuries, I'd understand .... but surely both men and women get these, so when the term refers to joints, it is not referring to something gendered, is it? So it couldn't ever be confused with a gendered derogatory term for women's genitals?

well yes, you would think so, wouldn't you? so why all the accusations that this has come from porn or is part of a rape culture? tbh i think that any pornification of this term and the bodies of female foetuses is coming from yourselves alone.

and it's not being used as 'a gendered term'. it's being used as a descriptive term so that parents can see the clitoris and labia of their female child. but let us not forget that last night it was widely accepted on this thread that comparing all babies, male or female, to any meat product, was crass. had the hamburger shape been used to describe a set of male genitalia, we were told, it would be equally as bad.

I don't follow ... I'm pretty sure only girl babies have a clitoris or labia?

i suggest you read the thread, jericho.

but your 'confusion' goes some way to backing up my theory that you are retro-fitting your offence here.

aitch, the first time I read the thread I didn't understand your posts.

I'm not sure reading them again will help me.

oh well, i must be very stupid then, and you very clever, jericho.

i'm still waiting for someone to come close to demonstrating that this term originated in porn and has been co-opted into sonography (knees and genitals) because of the insidious rape culture that we all operate in. it's been claimed many times on this thread, would love some evidence.

No, that isn't what I'm getting at.

I don't understand how the fact a broken joint is given the term 'hamburger' matters in the context. It just seem irrelevant to me. I may be missing something.

I agree with the people who said they think the term didn't originate in porn (no one, of course, said it did).

Given the associations with porn - why bother about why it offends?

It's like saying, why does a swastika offend? After all the symbol has a long history in deeply devout Hindu culture. The fact it was co-opted by anti-Jewish forces may not matter - but we would all, I think, happily avoid using that symbol for fear it might upset a minority.

"Dworkin Fri 24-Feb-12 20:16:10
I agree with IC upthread. I stated that I was uncomfortable if my feotus' sex bits had been described as a hamburger, as I had two girls. I'd never of thought it. It is a description taken straight out of porn and we therefore are pronofying our girls in utero. This I find disgraceful. I will fight it.

No apologies."

"LineRunner Fri 24-Feb-12 18:43:43
It's uncomfortable that American fast food terms that became part of porn vocab also seem to have become part of sonogram vocab."

if you're going to act like head girl, stewie, probably best if you keep up with what's on the thread.

if something is shaped like a swastika i wouldn't expect people to describe it as something less helpful just in case it might offend, tbh.